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re: The future of compensation for servers in America?
Posted on 10/15/15 at 8:18 am to Dire Wolf
Posted on 10/15/15 at 8:18 am to Dire Wolf
quote:
Third, the only supplemental charge on the itemized bill will be for sales tax.
Completely different subject, but is there some sort of legal requirement that sale tax be line itemed on a receipt?
If you're going to include a tip, why not include tax too??
So if a customer sees a menu item for $20, the bill is $20.
1
Posted on 10/15/15 at 8:57 am to LSUGrad00
quote:
If you're going to include a tip, why not include tax too?? So if a customer sees a menu item for $20, the bill is $20.
It's possible to do and not that hard within POS systems. The customer will pay a higher price though.
Let's say I cost out a burger to be sold for $8.50. Add tax it comes to 9.32. What price do I then charge ?
9.32
9.50
10.00
Customers are used to round numbers or .99¢ in pricing.
Honestly you should assume tax is not included, there should never be sticker shock on that line item. It's nonnegotiable.
This post was edited on 10/15/15 at 9:00 am
Posted on 10/15/15 at 9:07 am to BocaJared
I have another concern with this new pricing model which I know has been discussed on this board.
High price items (usually expensive bottles of wine) receiving the same % tip surcharge as the rest of the meal. If I have a $150 meal(food portion) with an additional $75 bottle of wine, why would I be forced to tip 1/2 the food bill for the service of delivering and opening a bottle of wine? It takes 5 minutes, tops, to handle that while the meal may take 1.5 hours.
Just something to add to this discussion.
High price items (usually expensive bottles of wine) receiving the same % tip surcharge as the rest of the meal. If I have a $150 meal(food portion) with an additional $75 bottle of wine, why would I be forced to tip 1/2 the food bill for the service of delivering and opening a bottle of wine? It takes 5 minutes, tops, to handle that while the meal may take 1.5 hours.
Just something to add to this discussion.
Posted on 10/15/15 at 9:15 am to Oenophile Brah
That's fair.
Honestly, buying a bottle of wine doesn't stop me from tipping 20% on the total. In fact, I've never even though about separating them out. Granted, I am not buying $200+ bottles of wine..
Your argument makes sense (that it isn't much work) though. Every restaurant runs differently, but most have servers tip out a % to bussers/to-go/hostess/etc. based on sales. If the server only got $6 on a $90 tab because the diner had $30 in food and a $60 bottle of wine, they're probably walking with $4 after tipping out. Again, not the customer's problem.. which is why this new system would be a plus.
That said.. I wouldn't be surprised if the price of bottles never changed (or only changed by a small amount). People aren't going to pay $144 for a bottle that was previously priced $120. Especially since with an item like a bottle of wine, people are well aware of the value outside of the restaurant.. which is a little less obvious with food.
Honestly, buying a bottle of wine doesn't stop me from tipping 20% on the total. In fact, I've never even though about separating them out. Granted, I am not buying $200+ bottles of wine..
Your argument makes sense (that it isn't much work) though. Every restaurant runs differently, but most have servers tip out a % to bussers/to-go/hostess/etc. based on sales. If the server only got $6 on a $90 tab because the diner had $30 in food and a $60 bottle of wine, they're probably walking with $4 after tipping out. Again, not the customer's problem.. which is why this new system would be a plus.
That said.. I wouldn't be surprised if the price of bottles never changed (or only changed by a small amount). People aren't going to pay $144 for a bottle that was previously priced $120. Especially since with an item like a bottle of wine, people are well aware of the value outside of the restaurant.. which is a little less obvious with food.
This post was edited on 10/15/15 at 9:16 am
Posted on 10/15/15 at 9:31 am to LouisianaLady
quote:
If the server only got $6 on a $90 tab because the diner had $30 in food and a $60 bottle of wine, they're probably walking with $4 after tipping out. Again, not the customer's problem.. which is why this new system would be a plus.
This hypothetical seems highly unlikely to occur, though it could. In that rare circumstance, how much work did the server provide for $30 in food? 2-3 trips total? I'm also not suggesting that wine should receive zero tip, just not the same rate as food service. IMO.
Posted on 10/15/15 at 9:58 am to Oenophile Brah
quote:
how much work did the server provide for $30 in food? 2-3 trips total?
Well, the difference here for me personally is that I don't tip based on how difficult the job was. I understand why you may, but luckily for the server, most people tip off of the bill total. The tipping system as it is currently set up is based on the assumption that people are tipping based on their bill total.. as evidenced by tipouts based on your sales (not based on how hard you worked).
If the majority of the population tipped based on how difficult the job was (rather than bill total), you are actually making more of an argument FOR the 20% price increase/automatic tip being paid by employers to servers.
Posted on 10/15/15 at 10:10 am to LouisianaLady
quote:
Well, the difference here for me personally is that I don't tip based on how difficult the job was. I understand why you may, but luckily for the server, most people tip off of the bill total
95% of the time I completely agree. It's the occasion when you are dining out where you have a wine portion that can really skew your bill. If wine makes up 33%+ of your bill, it may not deserve a full 20%. This is all based on the idea that you have a hefty dinner bill. Not the rare situation you mentioned earlier.
Posted on 10/15/15 at 10:13 am to Oenophile Brah
I don't like this simply because it de-incentivises people that stand out from being outstanding.
Every restaurant I worked it, there was a very obvious difference between highly and poorly skilled servers. Good servers were generally rewarded with better sections, big-tops, more desirable shifts, etc...
This pricing system basically eliminates any reason to go above and beyond in your customer service. It "rewards" average, and could establish a lower standard of service unless front of the house management is constantly evaluating, and that's not usually what they are doing during busy shifts.
Every restaurant I worked it, there was a very obvious difference between highly and poorly skilled servers. Good servers were generally rewarded with better sections, big-tops, more desirable shifts, etc...
This pricing system basically eliminates any reason to go above and beyond in your customer service. It "rewards" average, and could establish a lower standard of service unless front of the house management is constantly evaluating, and that's not usually what they are doing during busy shifts.
Posted on 10/15/15 at 10:33 am to MSMHater
I think that it is unlikely these restaurants "ban" tipping. I could easily see people insisting on leaving a tip even if the restaurant has moved to a non-tipping system. People who tip well often like to be seen as a person who tips well. Whether it is for pride reasons or simply because they like the prompt/friendly service it guarantees them.
If servers know they still have a chance of making even more money due to people who insist on tipping for good service, the good ones will probably still try to go above and beyond.
If servers know they still have a chance of making even more money due to people who insist on tipping for good service, the good ones will probably still try to go above and beyond.
Posted on 10/15/15 at 10:38 am to LouisianaLady
Could this even work?
I know Europe has been mentioned in this thread and I was shocked when we went how slow service was. I mean initially, once you experienced you understood that it was just how things were. would servers be as inclined to do speedy service knowing that if they did 2 tables or 20 they get paid the same?
Right now most of the top servers know when to come and refill water without you asking, or drinks, etc... If they have no incentive (and yes people will still tip for exceptional service) then how many start to become slow?
The service industry already has a high turnover rate, could this make things worse or would it make things better?
I know Europe has been mentioned in this thread and I was shocked when we went how slow service was. I mean initially, once you experienced you understood that it was just how things were. would servers be as inclined to do speedy service knowing that if they did 2 tables or 20 they get paid the same?
Right now most of the top servers know when to come and refill water without you asking, or drinks, etc... If they have no incentive (and yes people will still tip for exceptional service) then how many start to become slow?
The service industry already has a high turnover rate, could this make things worse or would it make things better?
Posted on 10/15/15 at 10:45 am to LouisianaLady
quote:
the good ones will probably still try to go above and beyond.
You're right. But think about your years in food service, and about all the other servers you've encountered along the way.
I would think that most don't fall into the category of "the good ones". It's also a natural/rational human behavior to "slack" a little if your compensation is less variable. I see that with salary employees all the time once they come off the clock.
I completely understand the rationale behind this, and what he's trying to do, but overall I feel it benefits moderate and lower level employees at the expense of the better ones.
Posted on 10/15/15 at 11:08 am to tduecen
I wonder the same.
I think the tipping system is just fine the way it is and doesn't need to be changed. But when this topic arose in the past couple years, people in favor this new change were often people who hated tipping. The were all for this model because they were stupidly assuming it meant servers were getting paid minimum wage and tipping would be eliminated.
If you look at a thread on this topic just from last year, myself and a few others were saying it'll never happen that way.. that if it changes to a non-tipping industry, they will just increase all items by 20% and pay servers 20% of their sales. They have no choice. It is either pay servers what they are used to making or lose all of your staff.
I scanned the article very quickly, but it doesn't look like they're paying servers hourly. It looks like they're paying them a % of their sales (a service charge). So 2 tables still means less money than 20 tables.
I think the tipping system is just fine the way it is and doesn't need to be changed. But when this topic arose in the past couple years, people in favor this new change were often people who hated tipping. The were all for this model because they were stupidly assuming it meant servers were getting paid minimum wage and tipping would be eliminated.
If you look at a thread on this topic just from last year, myself and a few others were saying it'll never happen that way.. that if it changes to a non-tipping industry, they will just increase all items by 20% and pay servers 20% of their sales. They have no choice. It is either pay servers what they are used to making or lose all of your staff.
quote:
would servers be as inclined to do speedy service knowing that if they did 2 tables or 20 they get paid the same?
I scanned the article very quickly, but it doesn't look like they're paying servers hourly. It looks like they're paying them a % of their sales (a service charge). So 2 tables still means less money than 20 tables.
Posted on 10/15/15 at 11:10 am to LouisianaLady
ah ok, I didn't read the article just the discussion happening on this board.
Posted on 10/15/15 at 11:17 am to tduecen
I just had to go back and re-scan it before I responded 
Basically, they are just forcing patrons to tip and then handing it to the servers themselves instead of you getting a choice in the matter. As an ex-server, I'm all for it. But if I was a consumer whose tipping fluctuated based on service, I'd hate it.
Basically, they are just forcing patrons to tip and then handing it to the servers themselves instead of you getting a choice in the matter. As an ex-server, I'm all for it. But if I was a consumer whose tipping fluctuated based on service, I'd hate it.
Posted on 10/15/15 at 12:50 pm to glassman
Showed my waitstaff the article. They were all against the idea for many reasons. If you went to a base pay then the level of service would drop because whether it's good or bad, they are still getting the same pay. They also saw it as a pay cut since you would be making the same money on a Monday as you would a Friday.
When I asked about the revenue sharing plan they were skeptical because the article didn't give specifics on how it would work. They feel as though the increase in price would only benefit the house and not so much the FOH staff.
Overall they like the tip system we have now. If anything, adding a 20% grat to all tabs like most resorts would be something they would be open to (no shite right? Ha!)
When I asked about the revenue sharing plan they were skeptical because the article didn't give specifics on how it would work. They feel as though the increase in price would only benefit the house and not so much the FOH staff.
Overall they like the tip system we have now. If anything, adding a 20% grat to all tabs like most resorts would be something they would be open to (no shite right? Ha!)
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