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Started By
Message
If Pete Rose Only Bet On His Own Team
Posted on 6/25/15 at 2:33 am
Posted on 6/25/15 at 2:33 am
As opposed to betting on the opposing team, then why is that even considered an issue?
The prohibition against gambling is such a serious offense because everything about professional sports is reliant underlying condition of the contest being competitive. If the contest isn't actually competitive it becomes a complete farce that nobody would/should pay to see.*
So why would anyone care if Pete Rose bet on his own team? Serious question. Is a "slippery slope" argument all that's gonna be offered up here?
Fixing matches is a problem in tennis -- especially at lower level events (futures and challengers) -- that has been dealt with very harshly by authorities and rightfully so. People are paying to watch a competitive tennis match. It *has* to be competitive. But I've never heard of a player getting in trouble for betting on his own matches and, in fact, there is a tradition of this to a certain extent as Bobby Riggs bet on himself to win the Wimbledon singles, doubles, and mixed doubles titles his first year in the event, and then he went out and won all three. This story was widely known, yes? And nobody cared.
Why should it be a probelm for a player to bet on his own team?
*Wrestling is popular because it's entertaining as written. So please, nobody make an argument that competition isn't crucial because it doesn't exist in pro wrestling.
The prohibition against gambling is such a serious offense because everything about professional sports is reliant underlying condition of the contest being competitive. If the contest isn't actually competitive it becomes a complete farce that nobody would/should pay to see.*
So why would anyone care if Pete Rose bet on his own team? Serious question. Is a "slippery slope" argument all that's gonna be offered up here?
Fixing matches is a problem in tennis -- especially at lower level events (futures and challengers) -- that has been dealt with very harshly by authorities and rightfully so. People are paying to watch a competitive tennis match. It *has* to be competitive. But I've never heard of a player getting in trouble for betting on his own matches and, in fact, there is a tradition of this to a certain extent as Bobby Riggs bet on himself to win the Wimbledon singles, doubles, and mixed doubles titles his first year in the event, and then he went out and won all three. This story was widely known, yes? And nobody cared.
Why should it be a probelm for a player to bet on his own team?
*Wrestling is popular because it's entertaining as written. So please, nobody make an argument that competition isn't crucial because it doesn't exist in pro wrestling.
This post was edited on 6/25/15 at 2:35 am
17
Posted on 6/25/15 at 2:41 am to SystemsGo
quote:
Why should it be a probelm for a player to bet on his own team?
Because when he doesn't bet he is telling other gamblers to bet against his team.
Plus, at this point can you really believe he didn't bet against his team?
Posted on 6/25/15 at 3:01 am to cssamerican
quote:
Plus, at this point can you really believe he didn't bet against his team?
If he bet against his team, then he got what he deserves.
I have never seen evidence that he did bet against his team, and so I'm operating under that assumption for purposes of this thread.
quote:
Because when he doesn't bet he is telling other gamblers to bet against his team.
I don't think this is necessarily true. If this were the case, why wouldn't he just go ahead and fade his own team?
Posted on 6/25/15 at 3:24 am to SystemsGo
Give him the HoF.
Period.
Period.
Posted on 6/25/15 at 3:37 am to List Eater
I don't want it or any part of the baseball's hypocrisy. HoF wouldn't do anything for me anymore. People know I'm great already. And that's enough.
Posted on 6/25/15 at 3:55 am to SystemsGo
Fork, done.
Posted on 6/25/15 at 6:30 am to Dalosaqy
In a 162 game season, sometimes managers make decisions not for the game they are currently playing, but for the upcoming games, as well.
For instance, if you bring 3/4 your bullpen into today's game to try and win, you may not have enough pitching to make it through the weekend. But if you are betting on today's game, you could throw the entire bullpen and just not bet on the weekend's games.
For instance, if you bring 3/4 your bullpen into today's game to try and win, you may not have enough pitching to make it through the weekend. But if you are betting on today's game, you could throw the entire bullpen and just not bet on the weekend's games.
Posted on 6/25/15 at 6:39 am to SystemsGo
The Legend of Pete Rose far surpasses the actual player Pete Rose. Let's be honest, Pete was a very good but not great player.
Sure he is the career hits leader but he did it over 23 seasons. He played power positions (1st,3b,OF) with avg to below avg power and few SBs. he was an avg defender.
Just saying he achievements are more on the quantity side then the quality but baseball seems to reward quantity over quality. He should NOT even be in the same room with the all timers like Ruth, Mays, Gehrig, Gibson, Koufax, Bench, Gordon, etc
Sure he is the career hits leader but he did it over 23 seasons. He played power positions (1st,3b,OF) with avg to below avg power and few SBs. he was an avg defender.
Just saying he achievements are more on the quantity side then the quality but baseball seems to reward quantity over quality. He should NOT even be in the same room with the all timers like Ruth, Mays, Gehrig, Gibson, Koufax, Bench, Gordon, etc
This post was edited on 6/25/15 at 6:44 am
Posted on 6/25/15 at 6:54 am to STEVED00
Put him in the asterisk wing of HoF with a sign around his neck saying I bet on my own team. Like dog shaming.
Posted on 6/25/15 at 6:59 am to Atom Knab
quote:This, all of it.
In a 162 game season, sometimes managers make decisions not for the game they are currently playing, but for the upcoming games, as well.
For instance, if you bring 3/4 your bullpen into today's game to try and win, you may not have enough pitching to make it through the weekend. But if you are betting on today's game, you could throw the entire bullpen and just not bet on the weekend's games.
Managing in the regular season isn't about doing whatever it takes to win that 1 game on that 1 night, but it's more likely to be if you're betting on your team as a manager.
Posted on 6/25/15 at 7:04 am to shel311
quote:
quote:
In a 162 game season, sometimes managers make decisions not for the game they are currently playing, but for the upcoming games, as well.
For instance, if you bring 3/4 your bullpen into today's game to try and win, you may not have enough pitching to make it through the weekend. But if you are betting on today's game, you could throw the entire bullpen and just not bet on the weekend's games.
This, all of it.
Managing in the regular season isn't about doing whatever it takes to win that 1 game on that 1 night, but it's more likely to be if you're betting on your team as a manager.
The fact that we know he bet on baseball is bad for your reasons above plus how do we know he never once bet against his team. Is it just his word??
All pro sports need to be on the up and up at all times. The slightest inkling of impropriety of the players/coaches involved is a huge deal bc of the $ involved. Frankly I am surprised the NFL/MLB/NBAhas not cracked down on their players/coaches also playing fantasy sports.
This post was edited on 6/25/15 at 7:05 am
Posted on 6/25/15 at 7:16 am to SystemsGo
quote:
So why would anyone care if Pete Rose bet on his own team? Serious question. Is a "slippery slope" argument all that's gonna be offered up here?
I wouldn't personally consider it a "slippery slope." He bet on baseball, and lied about it for 20 years. He finally fessed up to betting, but lied about only doing it while managing for another 10 years. He's created a clearly defined appearance of impropriety. Sure, he could be given the benefit of the doubt that he never bet against the Reds or did anything to try to influence the outcomes of games(outside of the norm). But he doesn't deserve that benefit.
Posted on 6/25/15 at 7:32 am to SystemsGo
No one should believe a word he says. He's been proven as a compulsive liar and as someone with only his personal gains in mind.
It's completely reasonable to think he may have gotten into a big hole with bookies at times and they offered to wipe his slate clean if he threw a game.
It's completely reasonable to think he may have gotten into a big hole with bookies at times and they offered to wipe his slate clean if he threw a game.
Posted on 6/25/15 at 7:36 am to SystemsGo
Because you get into debt with the mob, you will do whatever the tell you to do, including better against your own team.
Posted on 6/25/15 at 7:42 am to Sevendust912
quote:
Because you get into debt with the mob, you will do whatever the tell you to do, including better against your own team.
I don't think people realize this. This is not you bartender bookie you owe a couple hundred to. This is the mob! They have influence. Only a matter of time before they enforced it (if they didn't already).
Posted on 6/25/15 at 7:43 am to SystemsGo
Chris Russo (Mad Dog guy, with his own XM channel) had the Dowd report guy on the other day and went on the attack over this, basically saying what you're saying here. He kept asking "do you have any evidence anywhere Pete bet against his own team?" Dowd deflected and eventually hung up because Russo was a little too much of a spaz. But Russo's point was that Pete may have been a dirtbag, yeah he's a liar, but his competitive nature would never let him tank or take plays off. Like he said, for all the people who probably hate Pete, never once has a player come out of the woodwork to say Pete said certain things or acted a certain way to get somebody else to take it easy so Rose could win his bet. I understand the slippery slope arguments and that baseball is about 162 games, not 1, but I would probably still let him in if there is no evidence of tanking.
This post was edited on 6/25/15 at 7:44 am
Posted on 6/25/15 at 7:50 am to Bunk Moreland
I was listening to Russo during the interview. He actually brought up a great point - how would you feel if we found out a michael Jordan bet on the Bulls in 1993?
I honestly wouldn't give a shite, so why the uproar for Rose?
I honestly wouldn't give a shite, so why the uproar for Rose?
Posted on 6/25/15 at 8:11 am to SystemsGo
Honest question - would people be so quick to defend, say, Craig Biggio, if he were the one in question?
Why does Pete Rose warrant such a defense if what we're talking about has (allegedly) little to do with on-field production?
I can actually understand the PED defense of "well everyone was doing it" because it's come out that a shocking number of players from that era were using, but betting on games in which you're playing and/or managing is much worse.
Why does Pete Rose warrant such a defense if what we're talking about has (allegedly) little to do with on-field production?
I can actually understand the PED defense of "well everyone was doing it" because it's come out that a shocking number of players from that era were using, but betting on games in which you're playing and/or managing is much worse.
This post was edited on 6/25/15 at 8:13 am
Posted on 6/25/15 at 8:15 am to STEVED00
(no message)
This post was edited on 6/25/15 at 1:14 pm
Posted on 6/25/15 at 8:17 am to SystemsGo
Betting on your own team while you're the manager has to be the biggest offense possible when it comes to current players/managers gambling on games. No fricking way that should be condoned. Under any circumstances
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