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Posted on 9/17/14 at 5:58 am to mouton
One of the biggest myths that the athetiest have perpretrated on the American masses is that the FFs were 'deist's'.
Nothing is farther from the truth. A huge huge majority of the FFs were church going members.
They have succesfully propagandized the American people into thinking that based on the quotes of a few of the FFs.
Did the FFs want an offical Christian 'religion' for the US goverment? Absolutely not. They had seen the evils of a state sponsored church via the 'The Church of England' and others.
They wanted to make sure that one religous view was not forced on the American people.
BUT we know that the FFs were heavily Christian men and their beliefs were factored into the founding of our nation.
Nothing is farther from the truth. A huge huge majority of the FFs were church going members.
They have succesfully propagandized the American people into thinking that based on the quotes of a few of the FFs.
Did the FFs want an offical Christian 'religion' for the US goverment? Absolutely not. They had seen the evils of a state sponsored church via the 'The Church of England' and others.
They wanted to make sure that one religous view was not forced on the American people.
BUT we know that the FFs were heavily Christian men and their beliefs were factored into the founding of our nation.
Posted on 9/17/14 at 5:58 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
We assume that animals live and die everyday largely without lasting significance, why should we be any different just because we are aware of our existence?
Because we are made in God's image.. He made us to have fellowship with him...
Moreover, so that we never die and live forever with God the father.
quote:
Eternal consciousness, even in paradise, seems like torture to me.
you are describing an existence apart from God.
Our struggles we are familiar with here on earth are not going with those who are going to heaven.
Somewhere on your journey you lost hope, trust and faith in God and his word?... I hope you find it once again.
The bottom line is we are the clay and we do not control much of anything.. but we can choose to love God or we can choose to love ourselves and deny God.
These important decisions have eternal consequences. Fair or not, we don't get to judge it because we don't control the outcome.
Loving God is not a burden..
Posted on 9/17/14 at 6:01 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:That is such a ridiculous statement. Just incredible. I was going to bring up apartheid, but it doesn't even warrant that level response.
When 70% of the population agrees with you to some degree and the majority of the rest don't care what you believe, oppression shouldn't be in your vocabulary.
Posted on 9/17/14 at 6:58 am to mouton
quote:
Was having an interesting conversation about this with someone on Facebook. I tried to explain to her that most of the founding fathers were Deists and not Christians. She obviously did not believe me even after I provided quotes from several of the founding fathers. What are your thoughts on this?
those who first came here were mostly puritans a Christian group of people. So no matter how Christian those early laws are, there is still a heavy Christian population in this country early on.
Maybe most of the founders were not Christians, oh well, for large parts of this country at it's founding there were many Christians.
Posted on 9/17/14 at 7:11 am to JazzyJeff
quote:
At first, no. But eventually he was crucified for his faith in the resurrection.
and many other Christians in the first few centuries, if you read the early Church fathers writing, they talk about martyrdom a lot.
Posted on 9/17/14 at 7:13 am to Gator5220
quote:
The Treaty was also edited in 1805 and the part about us not being a Christian nation was removed, but people seem to forget that.
So there were revisionist historians in 1805?
The reason this language was included in the treaty is because the Muslims were under the mistaken impression that the United States was a Christian nation and thus could not be trusted by Muslims. There were, even then, people who would have us to believe that the United States was a Christian nation....and the founding fathers were adamant that it was not....even to the point of stating, in no uncertain terms, that the idea was patently false. No doubt the incessant pressure from those who would have had this nation as backward as any Muslim nation created an atmostphere where this language was later deleted....but the fact that it was ever stated unequivocally proves that we did not want the world to see this nation as a Christian nation....
Posted on 9/17/14 at 7:22 am to wmr
quote:
work ethic.
WTF??? Work Ethic??? I guess it was work to buy another human being and force them to work for you....work ethic my arse....their slaves, now there was work ethic....
Claiming the founding fathers possessed some sort of work ethic that has been lost is akin to claiming they loved freedom also....their words speak less loudly than their actions....
Posted on 9/17/14 at 7:57 am to mouton
At some point God was put on our money, in our courts, in our pledge, etc.
SO yes, I believe it was founded on following faith in God.
SO yes, I believe it was founded on following faith in God.
Posted on 9/17/14 at 8:44 am to maine82
quote:and you are discounting founding and roots of the relevant 13 states. Did "foundation" of the US begin with creation of the Constitution in 1787? or did it begin with Constitutional ratification in 1788? or did it actually have its roots in formation and development of the individual colonies/states.
You're confusing state Constitutions with the federal Constitution
Posted on 9/17/14 at 10:43 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Yes, that's the point. He attempted to refute the claim that most of Europe was using the Gregorian Calendar in the 18th century by saying England adopted the calendar in 1752.
Just as I imagined, you dug a deeper hole trying to defend your lack of historical perspective. I'll type slowly so you can understand
1) Britian adopted the Gregorian calendar in 1752 (about 20 years before our revolution)
2) Therefore, the founding fathers would not have grown up using AD in their daily lives
3) British govt documents were dated using the reign of the current monarch, not AD
4) In conclusion, the founding fathers chose the specific words "in the year of our Lord" for a reason. That being, they no longer recognized the king as Lord, but only Christ
I'm not sure how to make it any more clear than that for you
Posted on 9/17/14 at 10:53 am to GeeOH
quote:
At some point God was put on our money, in our courts, in our pledge, etc. SO yes, I believe it was founded on following faith in God.
Mere coincidence.
Posted on 9/17/14 at 10:57 am to mouton
quote:
Do you believe that the United States was founded as a Christian Nation?
Why should I believe something that is so obviously and demonstrably not true? What's your reason for reviving this worn out topic?
Posted on 9/17/14 at 11:34 am to Rex
quote:
Why should I believe something that is so obviously and demonstrably not true? What's your reason for reviving this worn out topic?
Yep, all the early universities were built to educate pastors. Young children in elementary schools were taught to read from the bible primer. The Ten Commandments in courtrooms, religious iconary on government buildings. In God we trust on our money. Acknowledgement to the creator in the Declaration of Independence. The constant mention of God in the writings of the founding fathers. Countless references to God in things like the Mayower Compact.......
Yes Rex, you can do as you like as it pertains to your unbelief, but your wanting something to be so, doesn't make it so.
Posted on 9/17/14 at 11:40 am to Revelator
I'm not getting into it again. You've been shown your errors too many times to count. The topic is worn out.
Posted on 9/17/14 at 11:49 am to Rex
quote:
I'm not getting into it again. You've been shown your errors too many times to count. The topic is worn out.
There is nothing to discuss because it isn't debatable.
Posted on 9/17/14 at 11:50 am to Revelator
quote:
your wanting something to be so, doesn't make it so.
- Revelator
Posted on 9/17/14 at 11:53 am to Revelator
quote:
The Ten Commandments in courtrooms
I truly don't get this at all. What do the Ten Commandments have to do with our laws?
Posted on 9/17/14 at 12:24 pm to Green Chili Tiger
....... sure you dont.
Posted on 9/17/14 at 12:26 pm to darkhorse
quote:
....... sure you dont.
So you don't either?
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