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Posted on 9/12/14 at 1:40 pm to REG861
quote:
ISIS propaganda is more than just hating for hate's sake. They are actively trying to to recruit German citizens to kill people both abroad, and likely in Western Europe. There's a legitimate public safety consideration here. I appreciate what you're saying about defending speech but I won't be shedding any tears over this law. Germany tends to have very strict laws on these sorts of things, such as a ban on Holocaust denial.
I guess I'm more of a free speech purest than you, but I do distinguish between ISIS asking young German men to join their group and ISIS asking these recruits to commit violent acts against Germans.
EDIT: During the Arab Spring, there were stories of Egyptian-Americans and Libyan-Americans traveling to the Mideast to participate in their countries respective revolutions, and not only were they not condemned but they were applauded for doing a noble thing. Americans don't care about folks going overseas to wage jihad as long as they don't come back home and do it, or do it against American troops abroad, a la John Walker Lindh.
This post was edited on 9/12/14 at 1:49 pm
Posted on 9/12/14 at 1:58 pm to EZE Tiger Fan
quote:
we send the IRS after them, or use "political correctness" to SCARE them into silence.
Many have not done anything that will make them feel shamed. The PC campaign will scare them, though.
Posted on 9/12/14 at 2:33 pm to trackfan
quote:I think your last comment was true when there was a social/cultural consensus operating in America. Those days are rapidly fading away and... (heresy) That in order to preserve freedoms for the many, it may be necessary to set some limits or restrictions on others (the few). Problem is - who gets to decide?
Personally, I think these type of laws are unnecessary since we already have laws to deal with treason, sedition and incitement. The bottom line is that if you don't believe in freedom of speech for people you despise, you don't believe in freedom of speech at all.
Posted on 9/12/14 at 2:38 pm to JawjaTigah
quote:
Problem is - who gets to decide?
And therein lies the dilemma.
Posted on 9/12/14 at 2:44 pm to trackfan
quote:But the worse dilemma is to decide to not decide, which gives free rein to the anarchists, Islamists, and hate-mongers to tear apart the fabric of society for their twisted aims. It's gonna take courage and determination and states(wo)men and wisdom and more courage (again) to make the kinds of changes that can benefit the most people in our rapidly fragmenting times.
Problem is - who gets to decide?
And therein lies the dilemma.
ETA - so I say "Bravo Germany!" And I'd be pretty much sure the average German notices no particular loss of general freedoms as a result.
This post was edited on 9/12/14 at 2:51 pm
Posted on 9/12/14 at 2:53 pm to trackfan
I thought repealing amendments was unconstitutional? So you guys are in favor of governments taking away freedom of speech but you have a problem with people taking guns away?
Posted on 9/12/14 at 2:58 pm to Oh Lawd
quote:
I thought repealing amendments was unconstitutional?
Who mentioned anything about repealing amendments, which fyi, can be legally done?
quote:
So you guys are in favor of governments taking away freedom of speech but you have a problem with people taking guns away?
Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else, but I support both the First and the Second Amendments.
Posted on 9/12/14 at 3:42 pm to Oh Lawd
quote:Nope. Remember Prohibition? It was repealed. But the idea that under the umbrella of a generous First Amendment, that anti-American Islamists and other malefactors who would tear apart the fabric of Western Civilization should have free rein to recruit people for their destructive, murderous purposes that they should have no limits set upon them by the very ones they would destroy - is simply insane.
thought repealing amendments was unconstitutional?
Without repealing the First Amendment, one simple solution would be to declare any ISIS/L speech to be "Not Politically Correct." The ones who seem to be able to do this whenever there is something they don't like to hear could do this. Would it help? Who knows?
This post was edited on 9/12/14 at 3:44 pm
Posted on 9/12/14 at 5:33 pm to trackfan
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/14/16 at 2:31 pm
Posted on 9/12/14 at 5:53 pm to JawjaTigah
"The Constitution is not a suicide pact."
Posted on 9/12/14 at 7:59 pm to trackfan
quote:
The bottom line is that if you don't believe in freedom of speech for people you despise, you don't believe in freedom of speech at all.
I wish more Americans, including myself, would read and reread this statement.
Posted on 9/12/14 at 8:03 pm to trackfan
quote:
we don't try to stop people from hating.
If we did, the Westboro Baptist morons would have been put away a long time ago. I despise many things about this country, it's people and it's government, but it is still the best country on the face of the planet. Warts and all.
Posted on 9/12/14 at 8:07 pm to genuineLSUtiger
We don't have to mimic Muslim tyranny in order to beat them, we have to mimic their brutality on the battlefield.
:travoltaspeechinswordfish:
:travoltaspeechinswordfish:
Posted on 9/12/14 at 8:57 pm to genuineLSUtiger
I wish more Americans, including myself, would read and reread this statement
I think there are still more who believe this than not.
I think there are still more who believe this than not.
Posted on 9/12/14 at 9:13 pm to genuineLSUtiger
quote:
quote:
we don't try to stop people from hating.
If we did, the Westboro Baptist morons would have been put away a long time ago. I despise many things about this country, it's people and it's government, but it is still the best country on the face of the planet. Warts and all.
they aren't actively trying to recruit our citizens to commit violent acts against our soldiers and probably on our soil
Posted on 9/12/14 at 9:31 pm to REG861
quote:
they aren't actively trying to recruit our citizens to commit violent acts against our soldiers and probably on our soil
It's already a crime to plan attacks against the country, so why do we need to mimic Germany to guard against it? When the KKK was still lynching Black folks, the government went after them, and when they quit, the Government left them alone and that's the way it should be. I don't care about the government preventing people from hating me, I just want it to prevent them from killing me, because it can't prevent them from hating me anyway, and I think I'm better off when I know who the haters are than I would be if the haters are forced to go underground.
Posted on 9/12/14 at 11:44 pm to genuineLSUtiger
quote:
but it is still the best country on the face of the planet
Posted on 9/12/14 at 11:46 pm to trackfan
Dear lord we agree on something.
I one hundred percent agree with this statement.
quote:
The bottom line is that if you don't believe in freedom of speech for people you despise, you don't believe in freedom of speech at all.
I one hundred percent agree with this statement.
Posted on 9/13/14 at 12:10 am to trackfan
quote:
The bottom line is that if you don't believe in freedom of speech for people you despise, you don't believe in freedom of speech at all.
Nailed it.
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