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re: Young Earth Creationism and Public Schools...
Posted on 7/4/14 at 11:24 pm to FT
Posted on 7/4/14 at 11:24 pm to FT
quote:There is no separation. For a parent to raise a child, they will indoctrinate them with their way of thinking, purposely or not.
at what point is a child being taught and at what point is he being indoctrinated?
The issue is whether or not the rest of society agrees w/ what they are being taught.
quote:And that system will indoctrinate the children with a specific viewpoint. The only time people don't consider it indoctrination is when they agree w/ what is being taught.
The more frequently I hear about awful parents, the more certain I am that we should have some kind of public school system.
quote:Freedom is neutral. Man is either positive or negative, and that often depends on society's personal opinion at that time.
It's a bizarre place to be. Freedom is sort of incredibly important; it's essential to a truly human life. It also can allow for incredible cruelty and subjugation without ever truly breaking a moral law.
quote:Well, if this is the case, would it not be prudent to continue the practice considering that it does more harm to the YEC cause than good?
I went to a school that taught this sort of nonsense, and it created more atheists than not. It's not effective.
This post was edited on 7/4/14 at 11:26 pm
1
Posted on 7/4/14 at 11:26 pm to FT
quote:
You don't own your children and you can't just teach them anything.
Parents should be allowed to teach their kids whatever they want about the origins of life and humanity. Schools shouldn't, but you cant start legislating what parents can and cannot tell their kids about the natural world (assuming they aren't telling them their purpose is to kill others or some such dangerous garbage).
The hope is that society advances to the point where such beliefs are so scorned and so positively laughable in a public setting that nobody is willing to hold them anymore.
Posted on 7/4/14 at 11:27 pm to FT
I was homeschooled and taught YEC, grew up and went to college and now professional school. It had zero impact on my development, personally. I cannot fathom why so many people get so upset over beliefs people have regarding how we came about as long as they understand genetics, adaptation, etc.
smart people will be smart regardless.
smart people will be smart regardless.
Posted on 7/4/14 at 11:29 pm to Tiguar
quote:
smart people will be smart regardless.
There is a difference between intelligence and knowledge. Lots of smart people spend their lives wallowing in ignorance.
Yes, people can be perfectly normal and productive people in every aspect of life while still believing in YEC. That doesn't mean it should be encouraged, anymore than any other blatantly false idea should.
Posted on 7/4/14 at 11:33 pm to Scruffy
quote:It's a problem. I'm not willing to just believe that parents should make all of the decisions regarding their children. They're humans and are being formed by these other humans as they grow and learn. Being held and indoctrinated at any other time in their lives is horrific. If it's done by parents, it's fine and whatever nonsense the parent wants to make reality for their child is fine.
And that system will indoctrinate the children with a specific viewpoint. The only time people don't consider it indoctrination is when they agree w/ what is being taught.
It's a bizarre view and I don't know what to do with it, but I sort of hate the idea that parents own their children and can do just about anything they like with them, so long as physical abuse doesn't happen.
Posted on 7/4/14 at 11:38 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
What the OP is referring to, I'm assuming, is the teaching of intelligent design.
intelligent design. There is a creator of the universe who made the universe in such a way that we would come out of it. Pretty much the fine tuning argument for God's existence.
Young Earth. The story of Genesis is literal and happened exactly as the bible said. 6000 years old, Humans and animals created at same time, somehow we got all the species we have in 6000 years etc.
I don't personally hold to either. I personally believe that what science tells us to the best of it's ability how the universe came to be and how we got here is what I think is correct. God still is responsible for it BUT you must understand causality in the thomistic sense. Modern thinkers usually can only think of causal relationships in the horizontal, aka a cause b b cause c etc. But there is also a vertical causality, or primary causality efficient causality etc. I don't understand God as cause A rather I think of God as transcending all causes and is the reason those causes can have existence at all. Read up on Aristotle and cause if you want to understand what I'm talking about.
Posted on 7/4/14 at 11:39 pm to FT
quote:
at what point is he being indoctrinated
quote:
the more certain I am that we should have some kind of public school system.
Posted on 7/4/14 at 11:40 pm to Roger Klarvin
I guess I just fail to see the importance.
If someone is moving towards someplace in their life it matters, they will be educated eventually.
If not, then it doesn't matter what they believe. It seems meaningless other than from a standpoint of "omg they still believe in a GOD LOOOOOOOOOL"
If someone is moving towards someplace in their life it matters, they will be educated eventually.
If not, then it doesn't matter what they believe. It seems meaningless other than from a standpoint of "omg they still believe in a GOD LOOOOOOOOOL"
Posted on 7/4/14 at 11:41 pm to catholictigerfan
on the OP
I believe that schools, in reason, should be able to teach what ever they want instead of having the government mandate what they must teach. The state is all about these achievement and placement tests that they are so strict about what high schools have to teach, those teachers don't have much flexibility in their courses. Let the schools pick and choose what they want to teach. If parents have objections with it deal with it at the school level you shouldn't have to go to court to resolve what your kids are learning about in the classroom.
I believe that schools, in reason, should be able to teach what ever they want instead of having the government mandate what they must teach. The state is all about these achievement and placement tests that they are so strict about what high schools have to teach, those teachers don't have much flexibility in their courses. Let the schools pick and choose what they want to teach. If parents have objections with it deal with it at the school level you shouldn't have to go to court to resolve what your kids are learning about in the classroom.
Posted on 7/4/14 at 11:45 pm to catholictigerfan
quote:
schools, in reason, should be able to teach what ever they want instead of having the government mandate what they must teach.
This sounds good in principle, but would be a complete disaster in reality. Without objective state/government standards, the education system would fall apart.
That doesn't mean I think the current public system is in anyway adequate.
Posted on 7/4/14 at 11:57 pm to FT
Since this thread is somewhat about the subject, I'll just ask in here:
Did Rex get banned for being a twit in that louis zamperini thread? His avi and sig are gone.
Did Rex get banned for being a twit in that louis zamperini thread? His avi and sig are gone.
Posted on 7/5/14 at 12:08 am to FT
quote:Again, choose your poison.
It's a bizarre view and I don't know what to do with it, but I sort of hate the idea that parents own their children and can do just about anything they like with them, so long as physical abuse doesn't happen.
You aren't a fan of parents indoctrinating their children, fine. Send all of them to public school, but who is to say that the public school's indoctrination is better?
You have to get passed the idea that there is a system that doesn't involve indoctrination. There isn't. You just have to ask yourself, who would you rather doing the indoctrinating?
Posted on 7/5/14 at 1:16 am to FT
quote:
It's a bizarre view and I don't know what to do with it, but I sort of hate the idea that parents own their children and can do just about anything they like with them, so long as physical abuse doesn't happen.
WOW
You sound a lot like Hitler, Goebels and Rust
You are one fricked up puppy
Posted on 7/5/14 at 7:35 am to FT
I believe in YEC. I seem to be doing fine.
My kids go to a private school that teaches it. Both have turned out fine as well.
So, for the record, Wolfhound45 believes in the literal record of creation as outlined in Genesis 1 and teaches his children the same.
Have a wonderful day.
My kids go to a private school that teaches it. Both have turned out fine as well.
So, for the record, Wolfhound45 believes in the literal record of creation as outlined in Genesis 1 and teaches his children the same.
Have a wonderful day.
Posted on 7/5/14 at 7:41 am to Scruffy
quote:
I was taught intelligent design in Catholic school, but that is pretty much the basis of the entire religion.
We were taught evolution in Catholic schools.
Posted on 7/5/14 at 7:49 am to FT
quote:Should we cut out those parents' tongues, simply jail them, or just burn a bunch of A Beka Books?
Any homeschooled child that uses the Abeka program.
Posted on 7/5/14 at 7:50 am to Antonio Moss
quote:Indeed.
We were taught evolution in Catholic schools.
Posted on 7/5/14 at 7:53 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:Nope.
What the OP is referring to, I'm assuming, is the teaching of intelligent design.
Posted on 7/5/14 at 8:09 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Other types of IDers have lots and lots of holes to fill.
Yep, and I've filled em'. ID is rock solid. But ONLY for them who so choose.
There is a point wherein subjective preference colors the Objective. Per Quantum Theory. Personal observation...determines/affects the Empirical evidence/Reality.
Believe what you will, RK, and create the Reality in which you then exist. The *evidence* (colored by your personal inclination/bias will be indisputable, for you), but it's both naïve, arrogant and factually incorrect to assume that YOUR subjective version of Reality is the Absolute.
Everything should be on the table. No censorship. Let the folk decide. Some will comprehend E=MC2...some won't. Some will enjoy Love, Beauty and the assurance of Spiritual Truth. Many won't.
Infinite Parallel Universes. "Many mansions" (Biblical). Reap what you sew. Perfect justice; can't blame God for your choice.
I'm reading "The Transhumanist Wager", Rog. There's your ticket to immortality. The Singularity...becons.
Posted on 7/5/14 at 9:06 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Did Rex get banned for being a twit in that louis zamperini thread? His avi and sig are gone. ...
No, my posting privileges were suspended for analogizing the thrill of soccer to World War I trench warfare on the More Sports Board. Brilliantly, I might add.
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