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Started By
Message
re: OT potheads, what's your opinion of "wax?"
Posted on 2/27/14 at 8:53 am to Hopeful Doc
Posted on 2/27/14 at 8:53 am to Hopeful Doc
quote:
weed sends plenty of people to the ER. They essentially all have underlying psych issues, though. It's the "tipping point" to temporary commitment fairly frequently.
What?
Give me specific concrete examples
quote:
Synthetic weed is documented as causing brain damage, other organ damage, and a host of psychiatric issues in otherwise normal adults.
Synthetic weed really s no part in this discussing and I have no idea why you brought it up. It's a chemical more akin to meth then weed and is dangerous. Precisely because it's a man made chemical.
Why are we talking about that?
This post was edited on 2/27/14 at 8:56 am
1
Posted on 2/27/14 at 8:54 am to Hopeful Doc
quote:
I understand exactly what it is. You're missing my point a little though- the (synthetic) chemical binds the receptor better and also has less-to-no of the CBD (antipsychotic in weed that opposes THC, basically). So there are two parts to why it can damage the healthy brain. Both can be also be somewhat addressed in the concern for this wax stuff:
1) Is THC able to cause these same effects in higher concentrations? Maybe. Maybe not. Probably not, even. But maybe.
2) does the concentration process raise/lower/neither the THC:CBD ratio? Unknown. The more the THC:CBD ratio goes up, the higher potential it has to lead to psychotic episodes (not just your normal high) in a normal individual. Does this effect eventually plateau? Probably. Where? Who knows. Thus the fear from the DEA.
It has nothing to do with weed, it's dishonest to mention it at the same time when talking about people going to the ER for weed related cases.
All "wax" is, is hash made from Butane instead of cold water or alcohol. The amount you ingest is very low.
Posted on 2/27/14 at 8:55 am to Jim Rockford
quote:
Wax, the ultimate distillation of marijuana, is so potent that it is said a single hit will keep a person high for more than a day.
My arse, I took three dabs last night and feel fine right now. Hyperbolic bullshite.
Posted on 2/27/14 at 8:58 am to Napoleon
quote:
has nothing to do with weed, it's dishonest to mention it at the same time when talking about people going to the ER for weed related cases.
All "wax" is, is hash made from Butane instead of cold water or alcohol. The amount you ingest is very low.
Agree with all this. The reason they picked butane hash is because it's the easiest one to use for mass bullshite propagandists.
This is like living in preprohibition times. It's a great education in our government
This post was edited on 2/27/14 at 9:00 am
Posted on 2/27/14 at 8:59 am to Napoleon
quote:
And in the ER everyday how many overdoses of THC do you treat...?
Pretty sure the ER he works at is a donut shop
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:00 am to Jim Rockford
quote:
“And it’s like smoking 20 joints of the best grade of weed that you have into one hit of the wax.”
quote:
“We have seen people have an onset of psychosis and even brain damage from that exposure to that high concentration of THC,”
Oh
My
God
People are fricking stupid. This is nothing special. Its just THC, no one is getting brain damage from it and "psychosis" just means they got too high and freaked out but were fine in a couple hours.
I have smoked it several times and yes, it is strong, but no, it will not hurt anyone.
20 joints of high grade stuff? ARE YOU frickING KIDDING? Its like smoking 1 whole joint of high grade stuff by yourself, not 20.
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:00 am to blueboy
quote:
So are you saying that all people who smoke weed have underlying psych issues or that people who were fricked in the head to begin with went off after getting high? The former is laughable and the latter is not proof of causality.
I said neither, actually. Marijuana-induced psychiatric disorders appear to really target an "at-risk" group, usually people who have psychiatric issues in the family already. It's not proof of causality, but it's both a strong and common correlation with the exact mechanism currently unknown. If I am still having trouble conveying my point, please let me know and I will try to say it another way. Because your summary of what I said was pretty far off from what was meant (genuine attempt to communicate. No sarcasm or ill-will intended).
quote:
Synthetic weed wouldn't exist if real weed wasn't illegal.
Point taken. I don't disagree. However, this has nothing to do with my point, which is the effects on full-to-hyperstimulation of CB1 receptors in the absence of cannabidiol which are better understood because of synthetics.
quote:
I agree. It is potentially dangerous. So is pure alcohol, Drano and salt. If we started banning substances that can be concentrated to dangerous levels, we'd have to ban ALL SUBSTANCES.
I'm with you and against you here on this point. Yes. Everything can be concentrated to deadly levels. How many of them are concentrated with intent for recreational use? Because i don't deny the safety of cannabinoid use in essentially anyone without a history of psychiatric illness in the family (though i would recommend oral use over inhalational methods). I simply say there is justified concern for this particular substance at this stage of knowing its effects on humans. And there is pretty good science behind the concern. Not just silly fear-mongering (though the language of this particular article doesn't convey that well).
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:02 am to Jim Rockford
It really fricks you up. But damn it ain't cheap here
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:05 am to Breesus
quote:
What?
Give me specific concrete examples
Spend some time in an inpatient psych facility or a psych ER.
quote:
It's a chemical more akin to meth then weed and is dangerous.
In its effects, yes. It's more akin to much more dangerous stuff. In its mechanism, it's very much like THC.
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:06 am to TheCaterpillar
high for a day?
I have vaped some of the best stuff on earth in Amsterdam, smoked wax in excess, eaten edibles meant to be shared with several full sized adults, and NEVER have I been high for a full day, NEVER have I had "psychosis" that warranted medical treatment, and NEVER have I had brain damage.
Anti-marijuana propaganda is just getting started apparently. This article is filled with lies and half-truths.
There are 0 documented deaths from marijuana use. If you go nuts from smoking THC, you are already nuts.
I have vaped some of the best stuff on earth in Amsterdam, smoked wax in excess, eaten edibles meant to be shared with several full sized adults, and NEVER have I been high for a full day, NEVER have I had "psychosis" that warranted medical treatment, and NEVER have I had brain damage.
Anti-marijuana propaganda is just getting started apparently. This article is filled with lies and half-truths.
There are 0 documented deaths from marijuana use. If you go nuts from smoking THC, you are already nuts.
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:07 am to Hopeful Doc
quote:
effects on full-to-hyperstimulation of CB1 receptors in the absence of cannabidiol
Which strain of weed has no cannabidoil?
That's like making meth, calling it alcohol, then saying see if we study this meth we can see alcohol is bad.
quote:
appear to really target an "at-risk" group, usually people who have psychiatric issues in the family already.
That's never stopped any pharmaceutical company ever from producing anything and its an asinine argument. ADvil can be dangerous to the wrong person.
quote:
simply say there is justified concern for this particular substance at this stage of knowing its effects on humans. And there is pretty good science behind the concern.
There are also millions of potheads who have made and smoked butane or cold water or iso hash many many times and been fine
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:08 am to Hopeful Doc
quote:
In its mechanism, it's very much like THC.
Just because they are similar in mechanism doesn't mean they are equivalent.
THC is not causing people to go to psych wards unless they were already nuts and needed something to pin it on. Its like crazy drunks blaming the booze. You're already nuts, booze just amplifies it.
ETA:
also, everything is dangerous to someone somewhere because of an underlying condition. Should we ban peanuts because some people's bodies can't handle peanuts?
This post was edited on 2/27/14 at 9:10 am
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:08 am to Hopeful Doc
quote:
Spend some time in an inpatient psych facility or a psych ER.
Oh you're only talking about a small subset of people who are basically mentally allergic to weed?
We should ban penicillin. It harms a small group of otherwise healthy people
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:13 am to Breesus
quote:
Which strain of weed has no cannabidoil?
Didn't say there was one. I said it's possible to strip it in the purifying process. I can't say whether it happens or not (can you, perchance?). If it doesn't, there's less need for concern.
quote:
That's never stopped any pharmaceutical company ever from producing anything and its an asinine argument. ADvil can be dangerous to the wrong person.
All I am suggesting here is actually the safety of regular marijuana to compare it to stuff with higher concentrations of THC. There is a conceivable risk that you could concentrate it enough (or knock out the right co-compound) to the point that it can start to mess with "normal" brains and not just those that were predisposed.
quote:
There are also millions of potheads who have made and smoked butane or cold water or iso hash many many times and been fine
Good. So long as the current "at-risk" group isn't expanded because of this, I don't particularly care about its use. Have fun with it.
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:15 am to TheCaterpillar
It is very difficult to take anyone in law enforcement seriously when they allow BS statements like this to be reported as fact.
That's as bad as the local yokels busting a truck on the interstate carrying "eleventy-billion dollars of weed".
That's as bad as the local yokels busting a truck on the interstate carrying "eleventy-billion dollars of weed".
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:16 am to Breesus
quote:
Oh you're only talking about a small subset of people who are basically mentally allergic to weed?
Basically. I like this analogy.
quote:
We should ban penicillin. It harms a small group of otherwise healthy people
Why are you talking about banning anything? I just said there was justified concern. Kind of like how if you're allergic to penicillin, it gets written down and documented, so your doctors from there on out are like "hey, penicillin is the best drug for you. But since it's got the potential for harm, let's use this other stuff that works almost as well instead for you."
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:17 am to Hopeful Doc
quote:
said it's possible to strip it in the purifying process.
Maybe you don't understand the process. It isn't distilling or purifying or some intense scientific thing. It just separates the THC crystals from the carbon plant matter.
Nothing is changed or altered chemically. You can do it with water.
You don't even need water. You can shake it in a grinder then put it in a pollenn catching box. Then smash the yellow crystals left over together and apply a little heat
Butane is just the fastest easiest most efficient way
This post was edited on 2/27/14 at 9:22 am
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:19 am to Hopeful Doc
quote:
Kind of like how if you're allergic to penicillin, it gets written down and documented, so your doctors from there on out are like "hey, penicillin is the best drug for you. But since it's got the potential for harm, let's use this other stuff that works almost as well instead for you."
If that's all you're getting at then in apologize and agree with you
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:23 am to Hopeful Doc
quote:
Hopeful Doc
Posted on 2/27/14 at 9:27 am to TheCaterpillar
quote:
Just because they are similar in mechanism doesn't mean they are equivalent.
Their mechanisms aren't similar. Their identical. Their biding affinities and half lives are different, which does make them non equivalent. The concern is that, knowing what we do about the potential for that system to cause some pretty serious issues, this stuff is going to fall somewhere in between regular weed and synthetic weed on the spectrum. If it falls closer to regular weed, it's going to stop being talked about. If it does cause affects akin to (though almost certainly milder than) synthetic weeds, there will be more of a push to get rid of it, because much safer trips can be had on the regular stuff without worry about affecting regular Joes (excludes the "at-risk" group I seem to be getting a lot of flack for talking about- addressed again shortly)
quote:
THC is not causing people to go to psych wards unless they were already nuts and needed something to pin it on.
I've seen functional people spend a week locked up because they became nonfunctional. I'm not arguing anything. I'm stating my experience. It's a little more than "just going nuts" as seen with lots of other things.
quote:
also, everything is dangerous to someone somewhere because of an underlying condition. Should we ban peanuts because some people's bodies can't handle peanuts?
Let me try to make this point again, and more clearly. This is all a CB1 pathway.
Low end: THC is dangerous to a very small group. No one cares. They tell those people not to use it. When they do anyway, they sometimes spend the night (or a few) in hospitals.
Somewhere in the middle: this stuff. Very likely similar effects than that stuff up there on the low end with no added risk to most people, but the potential (albeit small) to wind up on the high end.
High end: synthetics. People with no underlying issues can have new issues arise because of its use.
The only point I am attempting to make is that concern is justified.
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