The Iranian Election Has Left Israel Without A Bogeyman; What'll They Do Now? - Page 5 - TigerDroppings.com

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themunch
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re: The Iranian Election Has Left Israel Without A Bogeyman; What'll They Do Now?


how often has packaging hid the true contents.....


Reminds me of someone I heard of recently, now who was that?????






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oklahogjr
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re: The Iranian Election Has Left Israel Without A Bogeyman; What'll They Do Now?


quote:

That's not what you said. You said we spend more on Israel than our own

mis type sorry about that.








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Ace Midnight
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re: The Iranian Election Has Left Israel Without A Bogeyman; What'll They Do Now?


Yeah, because Hezbollah are all joining the ADL now.







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trackfan
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re: The Iranian Election Has Left Israel Without A Bogeyman; What'll They Do Now?


quote:

Yeah, because Hezbollah are all joining the ADL now.

Do you consider the ADL to be a paragon of tolerance?






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Ace Midnight
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Member since Dec 2006
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re: The Iranian Election Has Left Israel Without A Bogeyman; What'll They Do Now?


quote:

Do you consider the ADL to be a paragon of tolerance?


No. Because the problem has, for well over 100 years, been far more complex than picking a side of either "Jews Good" or "Palestinians Good" - the fact that Iran may or may not relax their particular brand of Sh'ia "All Jews must die rhetoric" does not mean that Hezbollah and Hamas are all joining the Likud party now.

Likewise, when a moderate or liberal Israeli gets elected PM - does that make it all better on the West Bank? Gaza?

Of course not. This problem has about 1,001 problems, of which Iran and Hezbollah are but 2 - perhaps 2 of the bigger, but only 2.






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trackfan
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re: The Iranian Election Has Left Israel Without A Bogeyman; What'll They Do Now?


quote:

how often has packaging hid the true contents.....

Exactly! One thing Iranians are united on is the nuclear issue. Even the moderate Mousavi, who had the election stolen from him in 2009, has a daughter who is one of Iran's top nuclear scientists. The key to dealing with Western governments is to pretend to be on the same page with them. For example, no thinking person believes that Netanyahu and the Likuds will ever willingly allow a Palestinian state to be created, but as long as Bibi says the right things, Israel can continue its obstructionist settlement building policy, and the West will turn a blind eye. Similarly, as long as Rouhani makes happy talk to the West, and calls for Muslims, Jews and Christians to join hands and sing Kumbaya, Iran can continue full speed ahead with the bomb. In retrospect, Khamenei probably regrets stealing the election from Mousavi in 2009, since Ahmadinejad caused more trouble than he was worth.






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Ace Midnight
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re: The Iranian Election Has Left Israel Without A Bogeyman; What'll They Do Now?


quote:

Khamenei probably regrets stealing the election from Mousavi in 2009, since Ahmadinejad caused more trouble than he was worth.


On that point, I completely agree.






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trackfan
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re: The Iranian Election Has Left Israel Without A Bogeyman; What'll They Do Now?


quote:

No. Because the problem has, for well over 100 years, been far more complex than picking a side of either "Jews Good" or "Palestinians Good" - the fact that Iran may or may not relax their particular brand of Sh'ia "All Jews must die rhetoric" does not mean that Hezbollah and Hamas are all joining the Likud party now.

I wouldn't expect them to join Likud, since it is even less tolerant than Hamas and Hezbollah, who both have had occasional Christian members. Now Meretz might be a different story.
quote:

Likewise, when a moderate or liberal Israeli gets elected PM - does that make it all better on the West Bank? Gaza?

Of course not. This problem has about 1,001 problems, of which Iran and Hezbollah are but 2 - perhaps 2 of the bigger, but only 2.

I disagree with you on this, and all you have to do is look at how Arabs/Muslims responded on the one occasion when Israel did elect a liberal PM. Not only did the Palestinians sign a peace agreement with Rabin, but Jordan did too, and other Arab nations such as Syria and Saudi Arabia began making overatures towards Israel. It was right-wing Israelis, such as Likud, who despised Rabin, not the Arabs. There'sno doubt in my mind that if Israel put a Meretz or Labor PM into office, Arab governments throughout the region would be ready to make peace with them.






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PRK
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re: The Iranian Election Has Left Israel Without A Bogeyman; What'll They Do Now?


quote:

Continue to rustle your jimmies. I know it drives you crazy that the Jews have a safe home.


A safe home from what?






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Jbird
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re: The Iranian Election Has Left Israel Without A Bogeyman; What'll They Do Now?


quote:

Arab governments throughout the region would be ready to make peace with them.






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Ace Midnight
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re: The Iranian Election Has Left Israel Without A Bogeyman; What'll They Do Now?


quote:

Arab governments throughout the region would be ready to make peace with them.


This is why none of us can take you seriously on this issue.






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Ace Midnight
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Member since Dec 2006
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re: The Iranian Election Has Left Israel Without A Bogeyman; What'll They Do Now?


quote:

They also have several dolphin-class submarines with nuclear missiles, fighter jets/refueling planes capable of reaching Iran...


And yet, strangely, they have not used these weapons against the people sworn to destroy them.

Why do you suppose that is?






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trackfan
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re: The Iranian Election Has Left Israel Without A Bogeyman; What'll They Do Now?


quote:

This is why none of us can take you seriously on this issue.

Only the ignorant and the close-minded would have problem with what I said because the facts as I have staed them are accurate.

Fact: Arabs governments did respond positively to the election of Rabin.

Fact: The 2002 Saudi Peace Plan binds all Arab governments to make peace with Israel if Israel makes peace with the Palestinians.






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Jbird
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re: The Iranian Election Has Left Israel Without A Bogeyman; What'll They Do Now?


This would be so much more enjoyable if your other Jew hating buddy was up in here.





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Ace Midnight
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re: The Iranian Election Has Left Israel Without A Bogeyman; What'll They Do Now?


quote:

Fact: The 2002 Saudi Peace Plan binds all Arab governments to make peace with Israel if Israel makes peace with the Palestinians.


What is "making peace"? There are functioning Palestinian governments on the West Bank and Gaza.

Are East Jerseleum and Right of Return non-negotiable and therefore there can be no peace without those 2 issues being resolved in favor of the Palestian position?






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N.O. via West-Cal
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re: The Iranian Election Has Left Israel Without A Bogeyman; What'll They Do Now?


"What is "making peace"? There are functioning Palestinian governments on the West Bank and Gaza."

This where I struggle with trackfan's narrative. Didn't Israel try merely withdrawing from one of the territories only to have rockets fired at them from teh departed regions? I also remain hihgly skeptical of how much the other Muslim nations in the Middle East are really seeking to obtain a homeland for the Palestinians and how much they seek to weaken Israel.






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trackfan
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re: The Iranian Election Has Left Israel Without A Bogeyman; What'll They Do Now?


quote:

What is "making peace"? There are functioning Palestinian governments on the West Bank and Gaza.

Making peace means putting a deal on the table that the Palestinians accept. Certainly there can be no peace as long as there are Israeli troops in the West Bank which controls the borders.
quote:

Are East Jerseleum and Right of Return non-negotiable and therefore there can be no peace without those 2 issues being resolved in favor of the Palestian position?

That depends on what you mean by negotiable. There won't be any peace as long as Israel claims all of Jerusalem, rejects the legitimacy of UN Resolution 194 and refuses to accept responsibility for the Nakba.






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Ace Midnight
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re: The Iranian Election Has Left Israel Without A Bogeyman; What'll They Do Now?


quote:

That depends on what you mean by negotiable.


Not this.

quote:

There won't be any peace as long as Israel claims all of Jerusalem, rejects the legitimacy of UN Resolution 194 and refuses to accept responsibility for the Nakba.


Those sound like ultimatums, not negotiating terms.

What if Israel just builds a wall between them and Gaza, tightly secures the border with the West Bank and only shoots if the Palestinians shoot first? Is that enough for you to suggest the Palestinians leave them alone?






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trackfan
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re: The Iranian Election Has Left Israel Without A Bogeyman; What'll They Do Now?


quote:

Didn't Israel try merely withdrawing from one of the territories only to have rockets fired at them from teh departed regions?

If you are talking about Gaza, you can't conveniently ignore the fact that Israel continued to control their borders and air space and imposed a naval blockade on them, long before any rockets were fired. As a matter of fact, Hamas had observed a 16-month long ceasefire with Israel prior to getting elected in 2006, only to have Israel respond by doubling down on the sanctions. Here's how Pat Buchanan summed up the situation at the time:

quote:

For a textbook example of why we are hated, consider Gaza and the West Bank. There, a brutal Israeli/U.S.-led cutoff in aid has been imposed on the Palestinians for voting the wrong way in a free election.

Immediately after Hamas’s victory, Israel halted the $55 million a month the Palestinian Authority received as its share of tax and customs revenue. Israel demanded Europe and the U.S. also end all aid to the PA until Hamas renounces terror, recognizes Israel, and disarms.

President Bush, though he was conducting a worldwide crusade for democracy and had urged that the Palestinian elections be held and Hamas participate, obediently complied. For months now, U.S. and European aid to the PA, half its budget, has been halted.

The early returns are in. “Surgeons at Gaza’s biggest hospital,” says the Financial Times, “have suspended non-essential surgery for lack of sutures, laboratory kits and anesthetics.” Environmental protection agency workers have no money for petrol to monitor sewage and industrial waste entering the water supply. Some 150,000 civil servants, 60,000 of them armed security personnel, have gone unpaid for months.

Supermarkets have to extend credit to customers who have no money for food. The Washington Post relates an incident that gives a flavor of what is happening.

“In Gaza’s gold market Monday, Nahed al-Zayim stared at the wedding ring her husband, a Palestinian police officer, gave her six years ago. She had placed it on a glass counter offering it for sale, joining several other wives of public employees who had not been paid in two months.

“Her head covered by a black veil, Zayim said she needed the proceeds from her ring to buy diapers and milk supplements for her three children, including Hazem, 4, who tugged at her tunic in the afternoon bustle. ‘This is the last one, we have no more,’ Zayim, 28, said of her ring.”

Woodrow Wilson called sanctions “the silent, deadly remedy.” Its victims are always the sick, the elderly, the women, and the children.

In March, the World Bank predicted the aid cutoff would lead to a 30 percent fall in average personal incomes among the Palestinians. The bank now considers that prediction “too rosy” and expects “the worst year in the West Bank and Gaza’s recent dismal economic history.”

Already, violent clashes have broken out between Hamas and Fatah. There is a danger of collapse of the Palestinian Authority, chaos, and a need for the Israeli army to intervene anew to restore order. Finally, May 9, under European pressure, the U.S. relented and a trickle of aid began to flow.

Query: who, besides al-Qaeda and recruiters of suicide bombers, can conceivably benefit from persecuting the Palestinian people like this? Does President Bush or Condi Rice think the Palestinians will respect an America that did this to their children, after we urged this election, called for Hamas to participate, and preached our devotion to democracy?

“The aid cut-off appears to be increasing anti-U.S. sentiment here,” writes the Post’s Scott Wilson, quoting 33-year-old pharmacist Mustafa Hasoona: “The problem is the West, not us. If they don’t respect democracy, they shouldn’t call for it. We are with this government we elected. I voted for it.”

LINK /






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tcoachmc
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re: The Iranian Election Has Left Israel Without A Bogeyman; What'll They Do Now?


You must be an anti-dentite. Lol!


This post was edited on 6/19 at 11:24 am


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