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re: Liverpool FC 2011/12 Season Thread
Posted on 3/4/12 at 10:41 pm to BleedPurpleGold
Posted on 3/4/12 at 10:41 pm to BleedPurpleGold
quote:
Good article. It really illustrates the brilliance we displayed Saturday, and just how badly we wasted that. The more I think about it the more I'm just left dumbfounded. How can we play such beautiful football 90% of the game, and then royally frick up the last touch every single time?
It just seems to me that the quality of our play as a creative attacking unit is totally lacking. I think up to the point where Lucas got hurt we were actually beginning to see a cohesive unit emerge with Lucas linking with Gerrard or Adam. When he went down it all went to shite. Nevertheless, playing possession ball doesnt seem to be a problem (see: the entire season). But its pushing forward, creating, and not shitting the bed in the final third that to me is the crux of the matter. I believe if you re-watched the Arsenal match you would see that aside from what Suarez or Kuyt created by themselves, there really hasn't been much in legitimate scoring opportunities. Watching Liverpool is like watching the USMNT try to get something going offensively then surrender a late goal to the opponent and lose.
Right now it is impossible to know what our best xi is, given the inconsistency. Sometimes Downing looks great. Sometimes Carroll shows flashes of brilliance. But until all these guys get the experience together and develop trust and understanding, its going to be tough. And it just does not help that whenever we seem to get cohesion going, somebody gets hurt. We have been quite unlucky in that aspect.
Selling everyone in the offseason isn't going to solve anything, I've determined. If anything, it will only make things worse. It's a tough pill to swallow, but we're not going to be competing for the Champions League in 2012-13. We'll build off a Carling Cup win, hopefully beat Stoke and move further and keep competing in the FA Cup, but I think you may as well get used to these guys that we have and see what happens in the summer. But don't expect an overhaul.
This post was edited on 3/4/12 at 10:44 pm
2
Posted on 3/4/12 at 10:47 pm to Meursault
I never expected an overhaul. But i do expect us to buy a decent finisher. Really, the season came down to Lucas. That injury wrecked us and we still haven't recovered. Refusing to buy a better replacement for him than Jay has hurt a lot.
Posted on 3/4/12 at 10:53 pm to Meursault
quote:
Sometimes Downing looks great
is no one else noticing that these outing have come against Championship and League one sides?
I really think it might be as simple as we don't have a striker. Andy is probably 3-4 years away from being a finished lethal product. Suarez isn't good enough in front of goal to take over that responsibility, and he loves creating so much that he's often not in front of goal at all.
I think someone like Dzeko could have us 4th in the table. Not even asking for Aguero brilliance, just someone who can kick/head the ball in the goal at a high percentage.
When Comolli says they won't do much in the Summer window, I think that's fine so long as at minimum a first class striker is brought in, and Adam is sold to some beach soccer club in Russia.
Posted on 3/4/12 at 10:55 pm to LfcSU3520
quote:
Adam is sold to some beach soccer club in Russia.
Posted on 3/4/12 at 10:59 pm to BleedPurpleGold
quote:
That injury wrecked us and we still haven't recovered. Refusing to buy a better replacement for him than Jay has hurt a lot.
I don't think this is the issue at all. This was a problem with him, and has continued after the fact. We typically win the ball back quickly and dominate possession. I don't know how this has happened in Lucas' absence, but it has. This season has come down to Carroll never hitting full stride imo. Not his fault I don't think, but if he chipped in the 15-20 I think was hoped for from him, we might be looking at this season much differently.
Posted on 3/4/12 at 11:10 pm to LfcSU3520
I tried to do my part in proposing that Liverpool take Marco Borriello for Aquilani and the money still owed Roma this summer.
You guys would be in the running for the CL spot if you simply had a competent albeit unflashy striker like him who'll at very least clinically finish a goal every 2 matches if he gets any service at all.
Also agree that the whole just buy English players --especially Adam -- who to an outside eye seemed all overrated to some degree was a bit odd.
You guys would be in the running for the CL spot if you simply had a competent albeit unflashy striker like him who'll at very least clinically finish a goal every 2 matches if he gets any service at all.
Also agree that the whole just buy English players --especially Adam -- who to an outside eye seemed all overrated to some degree was a bit odd.
Posted on 3/4/12 at 11:10 pm to LfcSU3520
quote:
I don't think this is the issue at all. This was a problem with him, and has continued after the fact. We typically win the ball back quickly and dominate possession. I don't know how this has happened in Lucas' absence, but it has.
I was referring more to his linking play through the midfield. Same as one of the previous posters commented on. In retrospect though, and thinking about recent form, I guess the set up play really has been fine. We always have great work up play when we set out to break a team down. It's not finding the pass, but finishing it that is our problem, so I guess you probably are more right than I realize.
On the flip side though, I can think of a ton of times Spearing gave possession away and a goal resulted within a minute or two. He has put the back line is some awful situations since he's become a more frequent starter. Not trying to hate on the kid, because I think he'll round out to be an excellent squad player and back up. But he's just not ready at this point and we should have bought someone.
This post was edited on 3/4/12 at 11:11 pm
Posted on 3/4/12 at 11:15 pm to LfcSU3520
quote:
is no one else noticing that these outing have come against Championship and League one sides?
I've been encouraged from what I've seen in his play against Newcastle, Aston Villa, Man City (CC), Man Utd (FA Cup). He's also had some very mediocre performances, as well a few especially horrid outings. I'm not ready to give up on him yet.
Posted on 3/4/12 at 11:16 pm to BleedPurpleGold
I don't disagree with that at all.
Also, I love Carragher, but if he becomes a liability because of inconsistent playing time, he's relegated to Europa League and Cups. He's being exposed nearly every time out now.
Also, I love Carragher, but if he becomes a liability because of inconsistent playing time, he's relegated to Europa League and Cups. He's being exposed nearly every time out now.
Posted on 3/4/12 at 11:17 pm to Meursault
I'm willing to sit through one more season but only if we have a legitimate striker he can service, but I'll still be wary about him.
Posted on 3/4/12 at 11:20 pm to LfcSU3520
quote:
Carroll
He's not a guy who is going to chase balls or anything. He's a target man. He's going to be there and hope something comes his way. He is very much so a traditional English forward, and my argument is still that without creativity and variance in attack his style is completely useless. The crosses are horrible. The overlaps from our backs are not there (Enrique and Johnson try, but mostly the end up overcrowding Downing and Kuyt/Hendo/whoever is playing right wing at the time... And so they just end up taking stupid shots). I still say it starts with the CMs, and I would look there first and foremost.
This post was edited on 3/4/12 at 11:24 pm
Posted on 3/4/12 at 11:20 pm to LfcSU3520
quote:
Also, I love Carragher, but if he becomes a liability because of inconsistent playing time, he's relegated to Europa League and Cups. He's being exposed nearly every time out now.
It was really bad on Saturday. I will say that Pepe played somewhat timidly at times (especially on that first goal - the ball was like 5 feet from him - punch the damned thing), but that in no way excuses Jamie for the way he played. RvP made him look like a U-17'er out there. I was really worried when Agger got hurt and all of those fears were realized in a game where both goals can be attributed to his poor play. I love him to death, but dude's just getting too old.
Posted on 3/7/12 at 5:37 pm to BleedPurpleGold
If anyone watched the Barca-Bayer game, I say we make a bid for Christian Tello. 2 goals in 1 game.
Hopefully we can add a finisher to this team
I'm kidding
but seriously. We need a finisher.
Hopefully we can add a finisher to this team
I'm kidding
but seriously. We need a finisher.
This post was edited on 3/7/12 at 5:38 pm
Posted on 3/7/12 at 6:51 pm to tsmi136
quote:
We need a finisher.
Luis Suarez at Ajax: 110 goals in 81 appearances.
Luis Suarez at Liverpool: 10 goals in 34 appearances.
I'm not so sure we do. I think, right now, Luis is trying to do too much by himself. He creates, but he creates mostly for himself. I still say bolster the midfield (specifically where creativity can be enhanced), and the goals will come.
Posted on 3/7/12 at 6:56 pm to tsmi136
I see a lot of talk about spending money every window but looking back over the last calendar year where we spent over 100m, what have we got to show for it? What spots on the pitch have really been shored up?
-Enrique at left back, despite his recent dip in form, will be a top 3-4 LB in the prem for the next few years.
-Suarez obviously was a great pick up and probably should've cost us what we paid for Carroll, but he needs another striker to play off up top. So while we all agree he's world class, he hasn't been the replacement for Torres that we needed.
-Henderson has been forced into the right side of the midfield/right winger where he is painfully uncomfortable and completely disappears. However, I still like this buy for the future because I think he's got some great years ahead of him.
-Downing has been a disappointment on a number of levels. If you subscribe to the idea that he was brought in to cross balls into Carroll, well...let's just say that's been less than effective. For some reason, he and Enrique simply cannot find a way to overlap worth a shite. And his scoring has been completely nonexistent in prem matches.
-Carroll...nothing to say here that hasn't been repeated ad nauseum except that I don't think you can sell him at this point unless there is another team out there dying to overspend on him again.
-Adam has no place in this squad. Period. That people (me included) bought into Fergie's bullshite line about his set pieces alone being worth 10m is laughable. He not only has underperformed from day 1, but he has shown no prospect of improvement in any facet of his game. And then he grabbed the ball right away to try to take the pk against Arsenal.
I really think he may be retarded.
-Doni. If he stays around next year, I expect him to actually get run out a few times with the added Europa competition...maybe in the early domestic cup competitions.
So...a LB and part of a striker combo for 100m.
We're never going to be able to compete with City or Chelsea or the big Spanish clubs when it comes to buying all star squads so we've got to spend smarter. And, more importantly though I never really see it discussed on here, we need to develop the young talent through the academy and in the reserves. Buying a world class striker is the easy, short term fix...but developing world class players is the long term solution.
tl;dr Buying players isn't the answer, developing young talent is.
-Enrique at left back, despite his recent dip in form, will be a top 3-4 LB in the prem for the next few years.
-Suarez obviously was a great pick up and probably should've cost us what we paid for Carroll, but he needs another striker to play off up top. So while we all agree he's world class, he hasn't been the replacement for Torres that we needed.
-Henderson has been forced into the right side of the midfield/right winger where he is painfully uncomfortable and completely disappears. However, I still like this buy for the future because I think he's got some great years ahead of him.
-Downing has been a disappointment on a number of levels. If you subscribe to the idea that he was brought in to cross balls into Carroll, well...let's just say that's been less than effective. For some reason, he and Enrique simply cannot find a way to overlap worth a shite. And his scoring has been completely nonexistent in prem matches.
-Carroll...nothing to say here that hasn't been repeated ad nauseum except that I don't think you can sell him at this point unless there is another team out there dying to overspend on him again.
-Adam has no place in this squad. Period. That people (me included) bought into Fergie's bullshite line about his set pieces alone being worth 10m is laughable. He not only has underperformed from day 1, but he has shown no prospect of improvement in any facet of his game. And then he grabbed the ball right away to try to take the pk against Arsenal.
I really think he may be retarded. -Doni. If he stays around next year, I expect him to actually get run out a few times with the added Europa competition...maybe in the early domestic cup competitions.
So...a LB and part of a striker combo for 100m.
We're never going to be able to compete with City or Chelsea or the big Spanish clubs when it comes to buying all star squads so we've got to spend smarter. And, more importantly though I never really see it discussed on here, we need to develop the young talent through the academy and in the reserves. Buying a world class striker is the easy, short term fix...but developing world class players is the long term solution. tl;dr Buying players isn't the answer, developing young talent is.
Posted on 3/7/12 at 7:02 pm to xavierTIGER
quote:
developing young talent is.
Welcome the model of long term stability.
Posted on 3/7/12 at 7:04 pm to xavierTIGER
quote:
tl;dr Buying players isn't the answer, developing young talent is.
RAHEEM STERLING!
Suso, Shelvey, Pacheco, etc.
This post was edited on 3/7/12 at 7:12 pm
Posted on 3/7/12 at 7:10 pm to glassman
quote:
Welcome the model of long term stability.
Liverpool know it well.
Gerrard, Carragher, Kelly, Spearing, Flanagan and Robinson are all academy products that have played recently.
Historically they have huge names also. Michael Owen and Robbie Fowler topping the list.
Posted on 3/7/12 at 7:12 pm to Meursault
quote:
Meursault
Luis Suarez is not a finisher.
Posted on 3/7/12 at 7:25 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
Luis Suarez is not a finisher.
Tell that to Ajax fans, and Uruguayans. Typically if you score like that with both of those squads, you're the type of guy who knows how to find the back of the net.
Seriously though, re-watch his performance. He's getting zero wing play, chasing balls, getting overcrowded and having to score from nothing. From absolutely nothing. I think he's a finisher. I just think our CM situation is such shite, and Downing and Kuyt are so fricking inconsistent, Suarez is having to do too much. His shots are from absolutely impossible angles. He's not getting the ball with any legit opportunity.
This post was edited on 3/7/12 at 7:28 pm
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