re: Without God, are all men truly equal?

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you might want to look at this again.

protestant - 65.2 percent

catholic - 95.6 percent

atheist - 14 percent

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Catholic - 95.6% of what (yes, I know 24/25.1)? Your graph shows that both Protestants and Catholics are imprisoned at rates below their proportion of the general population, thereby implying that they commit crimes at a lower per capita rate. Yes, I see that atheists are also imprisoned at a lower rate. That doesn't negate the data that says Christians are as well.

My point was that your data was rough sledding for someone who claims that Christians engage in some of "the most evil things [you] can imagine."

Thank you for your honest response; it helped me to understand your perspective.


I brought you in prayer to God and asked Him to remember you.
He communicated to me that you were never forgotten.

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Ask him what he thinks about me buying a condo in Tampa. Thanks.

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God would tell you to be careful , you're buying into an inflated market subject to wild gyrations.

equal, in God's image, in so far as we have some of His attributes

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That are some incredibly broad assumptions being made there.

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what assumptions are being made?

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Without God, are all men truly equal? by DisplacedBuckeye quote: God would tell you to be careful , you're buying into an inflated market subject to wild gyrations. And what if money is a relatively low concern, and market fluctuation is irrelevant to the buyer?

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No need to consult God on this matter, you've got this one figured.

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I'm just wondering what his schedule is looking like for hurricanes, plagues, etc.

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He would tell you to turn on the Weather Channel for hurricane concerns and CNN for all other man made and natural occurrences that may possibly impact your life.

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I'd say CNN and your god are equally reliable for information that impacts my life.

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God has a highly developed sense of humor, he loves the Comedy News Network.

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correct. because it was indoctrination and the motives were purely selfish

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I don't think you understand what "selfish" means, or at least you don't understand the true motives of Christians.

First of all, Christians are supposed to help others not just because God commands us to but because it is right, merciful, compassionate, and loving, all of which are signs that a person is a true Christian is they are exhibiting those things.

Secondly, even if help comes with the gospel message, it is still not selfish. Those who believe that Christianity is the only way to salvation share that message out of love and a desire to see others saved, as well. In our belief system, it would be hateful and unkind to not share the gospel to those who have never heard it because it will all but guarantee that they will go to hell when they die if those people die without hearing and accepting the gospel.

Finally, sharing the gospel with those who are in need while helping them with their physical needs is not evil, hurtful, cruel, or any other negative description you want to use. It's also not selfish, since needs are still being met even if you don't believe the gospel message that is included; Christian charities aren't turning people away for rejecting the gospel (that would be cruel). Wanting to see people saved from their sins is compassionate, even if you don't believe it to be true. All that matters is that we believe it is true and we act consistently with that belief.

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yes, it does, and the fact that you cant see that shows how selfish and cruel you are.

show me one of these schools or hospitals that doesnt involve jesus, that is purely there to help people with no other motive or agenda, that isnt preying upon the needy and the sick and the hungry and using that as an opening to change someone while their guard is down.

that would be a truly kind and commendable act. that would be great, id love to see that.

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Like I said previously, to a Christian, it would be cruel to minister to the physical needs while ignoring the spiritual needs that are more important (life on earth is but a blink of an eye in comparison to eternity). There is no "preying" on people with these ministries. You act as if Christians are robbing people blind or torturing and killing them when all they are doing is sharing a brief message with them before, during, or after helping them with their physical needs.

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instead i see evangelicals sending bibles to Haiti after earthquakes.

not food or water or medicine, but 600 digital audio bibles.

that borders on torture. these people have nothing, they are in desperate need, and youre gonna send them crates filled with something you like, that you care about.

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There are hundreds and thousands of Churches and parachurch organizations that have donated millions of dollars in medical, food, water, and construction supplies as well as send missionaries, youth groups, and other volunteers to provide medical care, distribute supplies, and help rebuild individual residences and towns since the disaster in Haiti occurred and yet you pick on one organization that chose to send solar powered Bibles to those who might benefit from them? Are you insane? You are calling it torture to send something other than food and water, as if they have no need for anything else? You definitely have an irrational hatred for Christ and His Church if you would stoop to such a low level as to condemn people for sending Bibles, especially an organization whose sole purpose (it looks like, from their website) is to send Bibles to people throughout the world. They were doing what they were organized to do and you find a way to call that torture.

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heres something called Mission to the Worlds Global Disaster Response Team, which says...

"We’ve worked in the aftermath of floods, earthquakes, hurricanes, and fires."
"Ultimately we are ambassadors for Christ, joining local teams in the work of bringing the gospel to the whole world in times of adversity when people are often the most receptive to a message of hope."

in other words, when they're at their weakest and most vulnerable. these people are scouring the planet to find the easiest victims, people who have lost everything, and using personal tragedy as a way to sneak in thier sales pitch.

this is reprehensible. the level of arrogance and delusional self-importance it takes to do something like this defies belief.

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Victims? You do realize that Christians view the gospel as spiritual and emotional help, right? People who are feeling lost, abandoned by God even, are given a message that God loves them and wants them to be saved so that no matter what their physical condition is on earth, they will walk with God in glory and perfection in paradise. That is a message millions have accepted and been helped by over the last 2,000 years, and yet you make it sound like Christians are vultures looking to pick people clean. You are woefully ignorant of what Christianity really is if you think that's the case. It's also not a "sales pitch" because there is nothing being sold. It's a free offer and people are free to accept it or reject it. The help provided by Christians to the needy throughout the world doesn't come with conditions.

I also take issue with your insistence that this is a matter of "self-importance" and "arrogance" to dare to share the only way to salvation to people who are in need. Self-importance and arrogance are concepts that focus on the self but Christianity and Christ missions focus on both individuals in need as well as the glory of God, which are not selfish things at all. This shows me that in spite of your claim that you were raised in a Christian home, you don't have even a basic understanding of Christianity and what Christians really believe.

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these people did the same in Cuba.

"They also visited the homes of sick and shut-in members. While there they read Bible passages and sang hymns in English with them."

there's no mention anywhere of helping those sick and infirmed people with medical care or food, but they sang hymns. in English, even though 90 percent of Cuba only speaks Spanish.

what could be more selfless. truly thats what those people need.

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The "mission" of that group was to provide Bibles to people in Cuba who can't afford them. Not every organization is focused on basic physical necessities because there are so many organizations that do have those things at the forefront of their mission work, but there are other needs that need to be filled, as well.

I wonder if you have an issue with people sending phone cards to military personnel stationed overseas when there's a need for snack bags. Different people and groups help others in different ways and there are more needs than just food and water, especially in terms of Christianity who believes that both physical and spiritual needs should be addressed.

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i dont hate christ any more than i hate hercules. its not real. none of it happened.

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And yet you don't seem to spew such bile against Hercules. You have gone to the point of taking well-intentioned help from Christian organizations and calling it "torture" for selfish reasons. I can only attribute such delusion to hatred of Christ and Christianity.

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i dont care for a lot of them, thats true, and i think i just explained why

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You judge a whole group by the actions of a small subset and an incorrect misunderstanding of another subset. You refuse to acknowledge the good that Christians do because you can't ignore the gospel message that they proclaim and therefore you can't see any "good" in it because it isn't secular.

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no, you havent. you havent been told anything by jesus himself. theres no evidence to suggest ANY of these things ever happened.

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The Bible (specifically the New Testament writings) are an evidence, though you choose to ignore it. The quotes by the Jewish historian Josephus is another evidence. The quick spread of the religion in spite of those claims immediately following Christ's ascension in the place where these things were supposed to have happened is another evidence, since the stories would have been well-known and quickly rejected if they didn't happen in such close proximity where hundreds and thousands of individuals were written about as being eye-witnesses were included in the very scriptures that would be rejected if that were not true.

Just because you are not convinced by the evidence does not mean evidence doesn't exist. That'd be like looking at an acquittal in a court of law and saying that the verdict meant that no evidence existed that the accused was guilty. That's not necessarily true, it just means that whatever evidence that was presented was not sufficient to convince the jury or the judge of the guilt.

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if "jesus" has talked to you, then there are voices in your head telling you to do things, and you need to see a doctor. probably several.

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Jesus has not talked to me audibly. He speaks to me (like everyone) through the text of the scriptures. There's nothing magical about it; it's just reading comprehension.

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when you read stories like Matthew 27

keep in mind that theres only one historical record of any kind that proves Pontious Pilate even existed.

his name in a rock is literally everything we know about Pilate, and yet "matthew" somehow has this incredibly detailed story.

with quotes.

and private conversations with his wife.

"While Pilate was sitting on the judge’s seat, his wife sent him this message: ‘Don’t have anything to do with that innocent man, for I have suffered a great deal today in a dream because of him.’"

no one else in roman history even wrote down his name, but the gospels claim to know what was in the letters his wife sent him.

its not true.

its a lie.

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Is that how you interpret it? I interpret it that men given insight by God (who knows all things) was able to provide an account about a man whose legacy did not survive except through the record given in the scriptures as well as a stone inscription that was found. The inscription seems to validate the existence of the man written about in the Bible and probably no one would have known anything about him today except for the prominence he played in a singular execution in history. It just happened to be Jesus that was the man executed, thus we have the account preserved for us while other evidences have been lost over time (except for the inscription, of course).

You assume that everything from 2,000+ years ago mentioned in the Bible will certainly have verifiable archaeological evidence to support it. Many evidences have survived and corroborate the accounts of the scriptures while others have been lost because not everything survives the strain of time and destruction.

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its a lie.

how gullible does someone have to be to actually believe something like this?

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Nothing you have shown has contradicted the account. You are using the sad argument of "the absence of evidence is evidence of absence", or rather, lack of evidence proves the account didn't happen, which that is logically incorrect. It's not a lie if you cannot prove it is a lie. You even provided evidence of the existence of Pilate and yet you claim the added detail is a lie? What is your justification? Because Pilate didn't have his own copies of his statements and conversations chiseled in stone and last 2,000 years? You are incredulous.