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re: This is how Libs see Free Speech today

Posted on 2/3/17 at 9:52 am to
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422552 posts
Posted on 2/3/17 at 9:52 am to
quote:

Pulling a fire alarm when there's no fire is illegal I'm assuming? So yes committing and illegal act in protest is not only against the law but unethical and antithetical to the notions of the "marketplace of ideas" as you put it.

the same applies to hat happened in Berkley and NYC
Posted by m2pro
Member since Nov 2008
28621 posts
Posted on 2/3/17 at 9:53 am to
I"m a conservative. That is the definition of free speech. The first frame says it all, and nothing else is relevant.
Posted by Draconian Sanctions
Markey's bar
Member since Oct 2008
84859 posts
Posted on 2/3/17 at 9:54 am to
Obviously we had a huge discussion about this yesterday, for me the line is crossed when you break a law or threaten to break a law in response to whatever it is you don't like.
Posted by cahoots
Member since Jan 2009
9134 posts
Posted on 2/3/17 at 9:55 am to
Using violence and intimidation is wrong though. Totally agree. However, this board tends to equate all liberals with fringe groups that perpetuate violence. I live in a very liberal city and most people don't do that shite.
Posted by td01241
Savannah
Member since Nov 2012
22848 posts
Posted on 2/3/17 at 9:56 am to
Why do you even have to peacefully protest someone speaking? They're just words. If you don't like it, don't go. I'm not saying people should be arrested if they keep it peaceful, I just don't understand it.
Posted by Draconian Sanctions
Markey's bar
Member since Oct 2008
84859 posts
Posted on 2/3/17 at 9:57 am to
quote:

However, this board tends to equate all liberals with fringe groups


True, but just as far right wing bigots like Richard Spencer have come out of hiding so to speak in the last 18 months or so, the same is true of militant leftists who neither respect the rule of law nor even understand how antithetical their behavior is to the ideology they profess to support.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422552 posts
Posted on 2/3/17 at 9:57 am to
like i said (after your post so i didn't tll you to go read it)

this applies to Reddit but not Berkley or NYC
Posted by Draconian Sanctions
Markey's bar
Member since Oct 2008
84859 posts
Posted on 2/3/17 at 9:58 am to
quote:

Why do you even have to peacefully protest someone speaking?


I'm not a protestor so you're not really asking the right person but I think it's just about getting out there and having your voice heard as well to express whatever objections someone has with whoever is speaking. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.
This post was edited on 2/3/17 at 9:59 am
Posted by ThePoo
Work
Member since Jan 2007
60607 posts
Posted on 2/3/17 at 10:00 am to
quote:

However, this board tends to equate all liberals with fringe groups that perpetuate violence.
crazy, it is almost like calling half the country nazi white supremacists

quote:

I live in a very liberal city and most people don't do that shite.

does not really matter where you live, MOST people are going about their daily lives just as before, with basic human decency and respect on a macro level
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422552 posts
Posted on 2/3/17 at 10:01 am to
yeah the population of Berkley is like 112k

there wasn't 60k+ people out there wed night
Posted by Draconian Sanctions
Markey's bar
Member since Oct 2008
84859 posts
Posted on 2/3/17 at 10:02 am to
I think what has happened with twitter and Reddit is not only distasteful but also pretty dumb. I didn't even know who the hell Milo was until Twitter shut down his account. All that did was give him noteriety he hadn't had before and on top of that he can say he's "banned by Twitter". It makes him look cool to people.

All of that having been said, it's not actually a violation of his free speech because Twitter is a private entity who has a right to decide who and what they want on their platform.
This post was edited on 2/3/17 at 10:08 am
Posted by Chimlim
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Jul 2005
17712 posts
Posted on 2/3/17 at 10:07 am to
There is nothing wrong with the image. It's looting, rioting, attacking people, and acting violently because a person you don't agree with is speaking that's the problem. Nothing is justification for criminal behavior.

Posted by McChowder
Hammond
Member since Dec 2006
5228 posts
Posted on 2/3/17 at 10:09 am to
I would disagree with the events being cancelled statement. Many have been dropped for fear of public safety because of the threat of violence from leftest groups. That violates the right of assembly and free speech. This is especially true at public universities. This is not a private institution where discrimination based on a distinct corporate values is both acceptable and expected.

Tax payer funds come with strings attached. Accept it or don't accept the money. Also, people are not being "forced" to listen to anything. Simply dont attend the event. That is also your right.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422552 posts
Posted on 2/3/17 at 10:09 am to
quote:

on top of that he can say he's "banned by Twitter". It makes him look cool to people.

i actually think this is the biggest worry for the progressives

for so long it's been standard that it's "cool" to be hip/progressive

if they start to lose the culture war with the youth and it's square to be a prog and cool to be "alt-right", they will lose their fricking minds in a way that we've never seen before. ignoring any political issue, this culture war is going to be interesting to watch unfold
Posted by ThePoo
Work
Member since Jan 2007
60607 posts
Posted on 2/3/17 at 10:11 am to
I think a lot of self-righteousness and naivety amongst youth is at the root of the problem

This desire to fight for some noble cause like civil rights or glorified vietnam protests (even if they have to create the boogeyman themselves, seeing as how they have no actual concept of or relation to these periods in time) so they can say look at me, look what i am willing to do, look how loving and caring and magnanimous I am. Then post it on facebook and twitter for admiration for such a noble fight



This post was edited on 2/3/17 at 10:12 am
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422552 posts
Posted on 2/3/17 at 10:17 am to
oh yeah i've said for years they want to be 60s radicals so bad they have to invent causes to protests

there is this Platonic ideal of liberalism being those people in that moment that warps a ton of rhetoric on the issues
Posted by ThePoo
Work
Member since Jan 2007
60607 posts
Posted on 2/3/17 at 10:21 am to
It is why I am never sure if they actually don't truly believe what they claim to but want to and have a desire to have others think they do or, because they have no concept of actual mass civil rights and human rights violations in this country in their lifetime, their naivety allows them to actually believe it
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422552 posts
Posted on 2/3/17 at 10:24 am to
they live in a bubble

plus, progressives, by their very nature, always have to be moving forward

if they get to a point of homeostasis, their purpose completely erodes

they literally HAVE to keep finding new niches to fight for or risk the entire philosophy dissolving
This post was edited on 2/3/17 at 10:25 am
Posted by ThePoo
Work
Member since Jan 2007
60607 posts
Posted on 2/3/17 at 10:32 am to
but do they believe in the new causes or simply embrace them because they know they have to in order not to stagnate and become defunct
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422552 posts
Posted on 2/3/17 at 10:36 am to
not to get all alex jones-y, but there are 2 tiers

the elites (academics, policy advisers, politicians) create the new language and niches to fight over

they coordinate these messages with their media and academic friends to proliferate the message

the peons on the ground living in the bubble know no better and truly believe these issues need fighting over
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