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Message
re: The real reason Muhammad Ali refused the draft
Posted on 5/10/17 at 4:07 pm to Tactical1
Posted on 5/10/17 at 4:07 pm to Tactical1
quote:
soon as Ali became a Black Muslim
quote:
Well what other color Muslim was he supposed to become?
I think you are just goofing with me but just in case you aren't here's a link that explains who the Black Muslims are.
quote:
Black Muslims, African-American religious movement in the United States, split since the late 1970s into the American Society of Muslims and the Nation of Islam. The original group was founded (1930) in Detroit by Wali Farad (or W. D. Fard), whom his followers believed to be Allah in person. When Farad disappeared mysteriously in 1934, Elijah Muhammad assumed leadership of the group, first in Detroit and then in Chicago. Under his leadership, the black nationalist and separatist sect (then called the Nation of Islam) expanded, mainly among poor blacks and prison populations. Although the group numbered only about 8,000 when Muhammad took over, it grew rapidly in the 1950s and 60s, particularly as a result of the preaching of one of its ministers, Malcolm X . Tension between Muhammad and Malcolm developed, however, and Malcolm's subsequent suspension (1963) and assassination (1965), possibly by Muhammad's followers, caused great dissension in the movement. When Muhammad died in 1975, his son, Wallace D. Muhammad (later Warith Deen Mohammed ) took over, preaching a far less inflammatory version of Islam. He aligned the organization with the international Islamic community, moving toward Sunni Islamic practice, and opened the group (renamed the World Community of al-Islam in the West, then the American Muslim Mission, and later the American Society of Muslims) to individuals of all races. In 1977 a group of Black Muslims, led by Louis Farrakhan , split off from the organization, disillusioned by the son's integrationist ideals and lack of allegiance to his father's brand of Islam. They named themselves the Nation of Islam and sought to follow in the footsteps of Elijah Muhammad.
quote:
This board can't even hide it now.
What can't this board hide now?
That you are this stupid or just pretending to be this stupid?
Posted on 5/10/17 at 4:13 pm to DawgfaninCa
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar converted to regular Islam, but never held himself as a Black Muslim. I can remember commentators drawing a distinction between him and Ali -- not necessarily a value distinction just a distinction.
I think the Nation of Islam ("Black Muslims") tries to hold itself out as more "mainstream" muslim than it used to, which is why I said, I'm not sure if it's still a "thing."
Either way, his post was sort of a funny goof or seriously exposed his ignorance.
I think the Nation of Islam ("Black Muslims") tries to hold itself out as more "mainstream" muslim than it used to, which is why I said, I'm not sure if it's still a "thing."
Either way, his post was sort of a funny goof or seriously exposed his ignorance.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 4:34 pm to The Spleen
quote:
My dad lost his best friend. His channeled his anger towards those that sent him over there, not those that dodged the draft. Hell, my dad burned his draft card. His number was pretty high and there was little chance of it being called so it was mostly symbolic, but he HATED anyone that supported the war until the day he died.
Sorry for your loss, but I lived and watched it all in person. I said nothing in either of my comments about support for the war. I do still detest those that dodged the draft, fled or burned draft cards. Therefore, he would have hated me, but my comment stands.
I hope you have some means of deeper context in study of what happened. The viciousness of the Viet Cong, et.al. The communists attempts to take over all of SE Asia as part of a world domination plan. Different times young man. As the war dragged on, I too spoke out against it, BUT NEVER EVER NEVER EVER put down anyone who was drafted, volunteered or returned to ridicule from leftist.
They still are attempting to tear this country apart and create their unattainable Utopian world.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 4:36 pm to Machine
quote:
I interpret your post to mean you agree with me.
Am I correct?
quote:
sort of, but replace "Black Muslim" with "Religious"
if you need a higher power to validate your existence, you're probably a sheep
I get it now.
Anyone who believes in a higher form of intelligence than themselves who they call "God" is shite in your book.
You believe human beings are so smart there couldn't possibly be some form of higher intelligence which religious people call "God".
You have blind faith that there is no "God".
You have no more evidence that there is no "God" than people who have blind faith that there is a "God" yet you call them sheeple.
If people are sheeple who have blind faith that there is a "God" then people like you who have blind faith that there isn't a "God" are also sheeple. You just are a member of a different flock of sheeple.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 4:36 pm to larry289
quote:
I too spoke out against it, BUT NEVER EVER NEVER EVER put down anyone who was drafted, volunteered or returned to ridicule from leftist.
Then what exactly was your specific problem with my comment?
Posted on 5/10/17 at 4:38 pm to RonLaFlamme
Don't bother me, I'd have been in Canada myself.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 4:39 pm to larry289
Nah, my dad would have loved you. When I say my dad hated people, it's really not fair. He didn't hate anyone, singularly. He did hate the government and their decisions that sent so many kids to an early death in a pointless war.
You're right. I wasn't around then, and my judgment on the era is certainly influenced by my dad's very strong opinions on it. Fun fact - he was so incensed by it, he nearly fled the country to live in France. His mom had dual citizenship in the US and France and he could have applied for citizenship there. He met my mom a few weeks before his planned exit and she convinced him to go to Woodstock with her and stick around.
You're right. I wasn't around then, and my judgment on the era is certainly influenced by my dad's very strong opinions on it. Fun fact - he was so incensed by it, he nearly fled the country to live in France. His mom had dual citizenship in the US and France and he could have applied for citizenship there. He met my mom a few weeks before his planned exit and she convinced him to go to Woodstock with her and stick around.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 4:42 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
Either way, his post was sort of a funny goof or seriously exposed his ignorance.
I agree.
That's why I just asked him, "Are you this stupid or just pretending to be this stupid?"
Posted on 5/10/17 at 4:46 pm to The Spleen
quote:
He met my mom a few weeks before his planned exit and she convinced him to go to Woodstock with her and stick around.
You dad made the right decision when he listened to your mom.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 4:51 pm to Homesick Tiger
quote:
You got to explain that one seeing as to how he wasn't in power until '73 and the war was officially over about 22 months later.
Simple he sabotaged the Paris Peace Talks in 1968 to prevent an armistice which could have hurt Nixon's chances of winning the 1968 Presidential election.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 4:53 pm to RonLaFlamme
quote:
I have no idea what this means.
Trump's Dad paid a doctor to fabricate a medical condition so that Trump could duck the draft.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 4:55 pm to TX Tiger
quote:
What if everyone refused to participate in war?
Do you mean "Supposed they had a war and nobody came?"
Well, you are in a dream world if you think that will ever happen.
quote:
For sure.
There will always be sheople who hate you and want to take what you have away from you by any means necessary including by killing you and your family members.
FIFY
This post was edited on 5/10/17 at 4:59 pm
Posted on 5/10/17 at 4:57 pm to DawgfaninCa
quote:
You dad made the right decision when he listened to your mom.
Yeah he always said Woodstock was 3 of the best days of his life.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 4:57 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:
Then what exactly was your specific problem with my comment?
Oh, nothing more than what I've seen from comments such as the dick measuring and immoral war. It just seems to always emanate to support for draft dodgers, runaways, are those spitting on returning kids my age.
See, I kind of read into comments from a world of experience. Maybe I missed something though, enlighten me?
Posted on 5/10/17 at 5:01 pm to larry289
quote:
Oh, nothing more than what I've seen from comments such as the dick measuring and immoral war. It just seems to always emanate to support for draft dodgers, runaways, are those spitting on returning kids my age.
See, I kind of read into comments from a world of experience. Maybe I missed something though, enlighten me?
I'm a veteran of Iraq myself. I was medically retired at age 33 as a result of that service. Tell me, what did you read into my comment? That I think Vietnam was a waste of young American lives?
Posted on 5/10/17 at 5:07 pm to The Spleen
quote:
You dad made the right decision when he listened to your mom.
quote:
Yeah he always said Woodstock was 3 of the best days of his life.
I also went to Woodstock and it was 3 great days of listening to some of the best bands of all times.
I could have done without the rain and mud though and with more Portable bathrooms.
Did your dad ever tell you how 400,000 people relieved themselves at night with so few portable bathrooms?
BTW, your dad also made the right decision when he listened to your mom and stayed here instead of moving to France.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 5:14 pm to RonLaFlamme
I can't imagine the courage it must have taken for a black man at that time to even have an opinion much less be outspoken as a worldwide figure while holding a very unpopular opinion.
Men like Ali, X and King are simply on another level and should be treated with reverence.
Men like Ali, X and King are simply on another level and should be treated with reverence.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 5:22 pm to AU_Right
quote:
Always loved they story of Ali meeting the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan show around a fight back in the 60's. Ali told them when they confronted each other, "y'all aren't as dumb as you look"...Lennon responds with, " No, but you are". Of course if Lennon were still alive, I'm sure He would be unbearable.
Lennon definitely was a very intelligent young man who always had a great comeback to anyone who insulted him, The Beatles or Yoko.
Some of his responses to reporters who insulted him, The Beatles or Yoko were hilarious.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 5:26 pm to DawgfaninCa
quote:
I also went to Woodstock and it was 3 great days of listening to some of the best bands of all times.
Not directed at you because I know you were an old school San Francisco hippie, but I don't think I've ever met a member of your generation that didn't go to Woodstock.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 5:27 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:
That I think Vietnam was a waste of young American lives?
First, let me thank you for your service in Iraq as an American.
The similarities in all such wars (Vietnam / Iraq) or other interventions vary, but a common theme with hindsight always seems to be that it was immoral, ill advised or political. Couple that with all of the Americans that died were wasted.
There's a little mix of all of that, but there are also noble contentions as well. Yes, I can make an interpretation that you think Nam was a waste of all young American lives.
My experience from those days just does not allow me to look at it that simplistic. No person that dies for his country's objectives is a wasted life, whether he was deceived by politicians or otherwise. Naturally, this is my opinion.
Do I believe that politicians and government complexes do make self serving decisions and mistakes that do waste young American lives? Yes. I just can't make the stretch that these sacrifices in Nam were all wasted, but that's me.
Enough gobledegook from me. If I have misinterpreted your dick measuring immoral comments and their implication, I apologize.
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