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re: The implications of the forced gay marriage legislation
Posted on 9/5/14 at 2:35 pm to ThuperThumpin
Posted on 9/5/14 at 2:35 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:
I think winning the hearts and minds on the issue of gay marriage may prove even more difficult for homosexuals in certain parts of the country than even the civil rights movement.
Absolutely. The "love the sinner, hate the sin" crowd will never accept it.
1
Posted on 9/5/14 at 2:37 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:
think winning the hearts and minds on the issue of gay marriage may prove even more difficult for homosexuals in certain parts of the country than even the civil rights movement.
I totally agree with this. One big reason is white flight. In many places, whites simply took their kids out of public schools once blacks were allowed in. With gay marriage you can't "white flight", there is nowhere to run to, which means there is no way to circumvent the law.
And I am by no means saying that everyone going to a private school did so to escape blacks. I went to a private school myself mainly because the public schools in my area were not very good, had nothing to do with racial issues.
Posted on 9/5/14 at 2:43 pm to genro
quote:
Uh, you're proving my point. A few activists judges attempted big social decisions, they gradually failed (hence the CRM), and the will of the people through their elected representatives set it right.
lol, what?
Brown vs board of education was a huge success, yes states fought it, but schools were desegregated due to the decision. It moved the cause forward very quickly as suddenly it couldn't be ignored.
Posted on 9/5/14 at 2:48 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:So you're saying public schools are now largely integrated?
but schools were desegregated due to the decision
Posted on 9/5/14 at 2:48 pm to genro
"Forced legislation" is impossible. This thread is a complete dud because you haven't a basic understanding of our democratic process.
This post was edited on 9/5/14 at 2:51 pm
Posted on 9/5/14 at 2:50 pm to genro
quote:
So is that the endgame, force a backlash and upheaval through judicial legislation and then use that? Serious question
No the ned game is getting to marry the person they love.
quote:
We're talking about legality, this is irrelevant. Those who are "different" will always see some form of discrimination socially. That's not an issue of legal equality
You were the one bring up hearts and minds.
quote:
You don't know this. How do you know the effect on 300 million people, and our society at large?
how does the law that says "Gay people can't marry" effect you now?
quote:
Ok. Who exactly are you talking about? There is also a difference between believing gay marriage is right and passing a law based on that. Is there anything to this point besides emotionalism?
I believe we should make harmless activity illegal. I am not a fan of victimless crimes.
Posted on 9/5/14 at 2:51 pm to The Spleen
Ok. I'm completely secular. I have no religious point of view whatsoever.
We know that human sexuality is a behavior that occurs. We know that the desire for it is influenced by genetics, personality, environment, and culture. Thus, like any other human behavior, our society in the long term can encourage it or discourage it, criminalize it or accept it, and cannot eradicate it. We can also understand that we are all subject to our genes and personality and culture, no different than gay people. Your genes and personality and culture and environment helped make you love football, the same way that a gay dude's genes and personality and culture and environment can make him love other men. There's no difference. We don't chalk any human behavior up to pure genetics, and it's very odd that some attempt to separate sexuality from that as if it's different.
Since we understand we are all subject to our genes and environment and culture, it is indeed indecent and unacceptable to oppress or marginalize gay people who co-exist with us. However, in the long run, we can decide through our subtle social ethos, to encourage or discourage this behavior. Why should it be encouraged? What makes gayness good for our society?
I'm not the only person who understands this - the way things actually are - and that both sides are way off base and obsessed with denying human nature. I've no doubt whatsoever there are futurists who understand this and are promoting homosexuality as a form of population control.
We know that human sexuality is a behavior that occurs. We know that the desire for it is influenced by genetics, personality, environment, and culture. Thus, like any other human behavior, our society in the long term can encourage it or discourage it, criminalize it or accept it, and cannot eradicate it. We can also understand that we are all subject to our genes and personality and culture, no different than gay people. Your genes and personality and culture and environment helped make you love football, the same way that a gay dude's genes and personality and culture and environment can make him love other men. There's no difference. We don't chalk any human behavior up to pure genetics, and it's very odd that some attempt to separate sexuality from that as if it's different.
Since we understand we are all subject to our genes and environment and culture, it is indeed indecent and unacceptable to oppress or marginalize gay people who co-exist with us. However, in the long run, we can decide through our subtle social ethos, to encourage or discourage this behavior. Why should it be encouraged? What makes gayness good for our society?
I'm not the only person who understands this - the way things actually are - and that both sides are way off base and obsessed with denying human nature. I've no doubt whatsoever there are futurists who understand this and are promoting homosexuality as a form of population control.
Posted on 9/5/14 at 2:59 pm to ballscaster
quote:No, your post is a dud because you are being absurdly idealistic about the democratic process
"Forced legislation" is impossible. This thread is a complete dud because you haven't a basic understanding of our democratic process.
Posted on 9/5/14 at 2:59 pm to genro
What the frick are you talking about? It took the courts to make southerners act right.
There were no minds won in LA in the civil rights struggle.
There were no minds won in LA in the civil rights struggle.
Posted on 9/5/14 at 3:16 pm to ForkEmDemons
quote:
I totally agree with this. One big reason is white flight. In many places, whites simply took their kids out of public schools once blacks were allowed in. With gay marriage you can't "white flight", there is nowhere to run to, which means there is no way to circumvent the law.
You're assuming that the purpose of the law is legal in nature. I'm not sure it is. There's a social goal of making homosexuality more socially acceptable.
Posted on 9/5/14 at 3:24 pm to genro
quote:
Contrast that with the gay agenda. They are bypassing the struggle.
You have absolutely NO IDEA what you are talking about. The fight for gay marriage has been going on since the 1970's and if you had bothered to research this instead of spouting off some bullshite you would know this.
The AIDS Crisis derailed gay rights for almost twenty years.
quote:
they are simply having solitary activist judges change the law, and I guess sort of "hoping" the culture catches up eventually.
So these are "activist judges"?
If that's the case that means over 90% of the federal judiciary can carry this title. And the culture has caught up. Voters have already legalized gay marriage DIRECTLY in three states and it's been legalized through the legislature in many more. Just because places like the Deep South doesn't want to treat gays like equal citizens doesn't make it legal.
I really don't even know why I bothered to respond to this bunch of nonsense.
Posted on 9/5/14 at 3:25 pm to the808bass
No! X% People are just born gay and The End. It is UNLIKE EVERY OTHER HUMAN BEHAVIOR in that it cannot be influenced.
This is the idea being promoted. It is wholly untrue, and actively anti-science. It can be disproven with a modicum of effort. The ones promoting this belief are fully guilty of ignoring science and reality for the sake of their agenda. No different than the religious fundamentalists.
This is the idea being promoted. It is wholly untrue, and actively anti-science. It can be disproven with a modicum of effort. The ones promoting this belief are fully guilty of ignoring science and reality for the sake of their agenda. No different than the religious fundamentalists.
Posted on 9/5/14 at 3:33 pm to Toddy
quote:I said nothing to contradict this. This has no bearing. I didn't speak of the 1800s slave revolts or any black activism prior to the 1960s either.
You have absolutely NO IDEA what you are talking about. The fight for gay marriage has been going on since the 1970's and if you had bothered to research this instead of spouting off some bullshite you would know this.
quote:Link?
So these are "activist judges"? ? If that's the case that means over 90% of the federal judiciary can carry this title.
quote:Great. That's exactly what I'm talking about. But what about every other state?
And the culture has caught up. Voters have already legalized gay marriage DIRECTLY in three states and it's been legalized through the legislature in many more
quote:Every individual person in the Deep South or elsewhere who opposes gay marriage does so for their own individual reasons. You're painting with a broad brush and falling into the same demonizing pattern I mentioned. So congrats.
Just because places like the Deep South doesn't want to treat gays like equal citizens doesn't make it legal.
Posted on 9/5/14 at 3:52 pm to genro
quote:
The ones promoting this belief are fully guilty of ignoring science and reality for the sake of their agenda.
I think it's a little more active than that. It's actively lying. The result is the same.
Posted on 9/5/14 at 3:56 pm to genro
quote:
Contrast that with the gay agenda. They are bypassing the struggle. They are not changing the culture, they are not interested in changing the hearts and minds.
This chart says otherwise. Plus, the gay marriage and legalize marijuana movements mirror each other almost exactly. The pro marijuana movement hasn't been militant by any means. There aren't many people who favor gay marriage yet oppose legalization of marijuana, and vice versa. So I think there's some evidence to disprove your assertion (Unless you think that the "legalize pot" movement has been militant and intolerant).
This post was edited on 9/5/14 at 3:57 pm
Posted on 9/5/14 at 4:14 pm to genro
quote:
However, in the long run, we can decide through our subtle social ethos, to encourage or discourage this behavior. Why should it be encouraged? What makes gayness good for our society?
I dont support gay marriage because I'm trying to encourage gay behavior or because I think gayness is good for society. I think its neutral. I support it because I dont want my fellow human being feeling like less of a person due to their benign sexual proclivities. I think they deserve the same rights and privileges as me. If an individuals sexual proclivities are destructive (for example pedophilia) then it should not be encouraged. In your opinion is homosexual behavior bad for society ?
This post was edited on 9/5/14 at 4:16 pm
Posted on 9/5/14 at 4:23 pm to genro
You cannot cite a single piece of legislation that ever has been forced. frick your ignorant thread.
Posted on 9/5/14 at 4:25 pm to Toddy
There is no such thing as an activist judge or "legislating from the bench." These are bullshite buzz terms used by both sides that are attempts to confuse and take advantage of uneducated voters who do not understand the democratic process of a republic such as ours.
Whenever you hear the term "activist judge" or "legislating from the bench," you are listening to a retard or a liar.
Whenever you hear the term "activist judge" or "legislating from the bench," you are listening to a retard or a liar.
This post was edited on 9/5/14 at 4:27 pm
Posted on 9/5/14 at 4:26 pm to ThuperThumpin
I don't necessarily think it is. I think there are certain factors to consider - inhibiting population growth, disease and health, and of course the highly lambasted slippery slope argument - more things that were once considered depraved become acceptable. Overall I think these things can be mitigated and addressed. I don't really know.
Really I just want us to all have this discussion, the real actual social-scientific discussion instead of the vitriol and simplistic hogwash regarding humanity that dominates both sides.
Really I just want us to all have this discussion, the real actual social-scientific discussion instead of the vitriol and simplistic hogwash regarding humanity that dominates both sides.
Posted on 9/5/14 at 4:27 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:
I dont support gay marriage because I'm trying to encourage gay behavior or because I think gayness is good for society. I think its neutral. I support it because I dont want my fellow human being feeling like less of a person due to their benign sexual proclivities. I think they deserve the same rights and privileges as me. If an individuals sexual proclivities are destructive (for example pedophilia) then it should not be encouraged. In your opinion is homosexual behavior bad for society ?
Literally the only reason for somebody to oppose gay marriage is because of religious beliefs.
And it's almost undeniable that religious beliefs have caused more conflict and chaos throughout the past 2000 years than anything else. So it's not like "Religion" is this shining catch-all of moral high ground.
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