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Posted on 9/5/14 at 1:37 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:Uh, you're proving my point. A few activists judges attempted big social decisions, they gradually failed (hence the CRM), and the will of the people through their elected representatives set it right.
are you familiar with what happened in the civil rights era? Much of the initial break through was through judicial decisions. Brown vs. board of education, anyone?
This post was edited on 9/5/14 at 1:38 pm
Posted on 9/5/14 at 1:40 pm to genro
Subsequent social justice attempts by the judiciary have basically killed all our urban centers through attempted forced integration.
Posted on 9/5/14 at 1:44 pm to the808bass
Yep. It is impossible for a handful of appointed human beings to understand the implications for 300 million. Impossible. Judges making decisions might as well be a philosophy club sitting around pontificating on social engineering. No one is of the entire country, one person could never possibly understand the perspectives and implications of the various individuals. This is why we have voting and representation.
Posted on 9/5/14 at 1:54 pm to genro
quote:
They are interested in demonizing the disagreeable hearts and minds.
Praise God......Oh wait! I thought you were describing the Christian right for a minute.
Posted on 9/5/14 at 1:57 pm to Kickadawgitfeelsgood
quote:
Praise God......Oh wait! I thought you were describing the Christian right for a minute.
Irony strikes the unaware the hardest.
Posted on 9/5/14 at 2:03 pm to genro
quote:
What does tick tick tick mean? That you're forcing the times to change even though the majority of people in a free and democratic country don't want it? And you think that's a good thing?
tick tick tick
By Majority you mean the old homophobes whose assbackwards thinking is being pushed out of society.
Yeah it's a good thing.
Posted on 9/5/14 at 2:03 pm to genro
1. The Civil Rights movement was bolstered by Courts and Legislation. The Civil Rights Act and Brown v. Board of Education where huge, and forced desegregation on a lot of people who had not changed their hearts and minds.
2. There is still a shite ton of racial tension in this country
3. Support for gay marriage is growing in leaps and bounds from even 6 years ago in 2008. LINK
4. They want to force change because they are being effected by laws that effect no one else.
5. there is this bullshite idea that you can have a shitty opinion and be an a-hole to people and then throw your hands up when they don't like it. You aren't a victim. There is a difference between believing Gay Marriage is wrong, and passing laws based on that belief.
2. There is still a shite ton of racial tension in this country
3. Support for gay marriage is growing in leaps and bounds from even 6 years ago in 2008. LINK
4. They want to force change because they are being effected by laws that effect no one else.
5. there is this bullshite idea that you can have a shitty opinion and be an a-hole to people and then throw your hands up when they don't like it. You aren't a victim. There is a difference between believing Gay Marriage is wrong, and passing laws based on that belief.
Posted on 9/5/14 at 2:04 pm to genro
"they" "they" "they" you sure know a lot about what " they want" for someone who doesn't know Jack shite.
Why do we see so many idiotic threads like this from the right setting up strawmen? Are you that vacant of ideas and arguments that you can't discuss actual positions?
Why do we see so many idiotic threads like this from the right setting up strawmen? Are you that vacant of ideas and arguments that you can't discuss actual positions?
Posted on 9/5/14 at 2:06 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
5. there is this bull shite idea that you can have a shitty opinion and be an a-hole to people and then throw your hands up when they don't like it. You aren't a victim. There is a difference between believing Gay Marriage is wrong, and passing laws based on that belief.
Forgetting of course that the laws are a knee-jerk and in my opinion ill advised response to the judicial activism which was slowly but surely moving forward before the laws were passed.
Posted on 9/5/14 at 2:07 pm to genro
quote:
Contrast that with the gay agenda. They are bypassing the struggle.
Man, in your second paragraph you tell the world you have no idea what you're talking about. Congrats genro!
Posted on 9/5/14 at 2:10 pm to genro
quote:
Unlike the Civil Rights Movement, they have not thoroughly convinced the people.
You mean like this
or this
or this
No offense man, but you have some serious revisionist history going on. Yes, some places were receptive and there were little to no problems. But in many places it was quite ugly. If you look up Ruby Bridges and New Orleans it was downright embarrassing to see how some people reacted to desegregation.
This post was edited on 9/5/14 at 2:11 pm
Posted on 9/5/14 at 2:10 pm to SammyTiger
quote:So is that the endgame, force a backlash and upheaval through judicial legislation and then use that? Serious question
1. The Civil Rights movement was bolstered by Courts and Legislation. The Civil Rights Act and Brown v. Board of Education where huge, and forced desegregation on a lot of people who had not changed their hearts and minds.
quote:We're talking about legality, this is irrelevant. Those who are "different" will always see some form of discrimination socially. That's not an issue of legal equality
2. There is still a shite ton of racial tension in this country
quote:Cool. So all we need is our elected representatives to put it to a vote.
3. Support for gay marriage is growing in leaps and bounds from even 6 years ago in 2008.
quote:You don't know this. How do you know the effect on 300 million people, and our society at large?
4. They want to force change because they are being effected by laws that effect no one else.
quote:Ok. Who exactly are you talking about? There is also a difference between believing gay marriage is right and passing a law based on that. Is there anything to this point besides emotionalism?
5. there is this bullshite idea that you can have a shitty opinion and be an a-hole to people and then throw your hands up when they don't like it. You aren't a victim. There is a difference between believing Gay Marriage is wrong, and passing laws based on that belief.
Posted on 9/5/14 at 2:12 pm to Vegas Bengal
quote:Nice response. Lots of emotion. Let's focus on the facts. A few individuals, against the overall will of people, are forcing social change through the courts. Do you believe this is always a good thing, or only when you agree with it?
"they" "they" "they" you sure know a lot about what " they want" for someone who doesn't know Jack shite.
Why do we see so many idiotic threads like this from the right setting up strawmen? Are you that vacant of ideas and arguments that you can't discuss actual positions?
Posted on 9/5/14 at 2:13 pm to ForkEmDemons
quote:You can't read very well. You're proving my point. There were bigots and backlash, and they fought arduously against it and they caused a social change in the people's minds. I don't know what on earth posting pictures of racists is supposed to prove.
ForkEmDemons
Posted on 9/5/14 at 2:16 pm to genro
quote:
Yep. It is impossible for a handful of appointed human beings to understand the implications for 300 million.
As you noted in your just previous post, emotionalism plays a large role in this debate. No one seriously considers the ramifications of this socio-structural changes which will consequently follow a massive redefinition of the family and marriage.
Posted on 9/5/14 at 2:16 pm to asurob1
quote:Then why force it through? Can anyone answer that question? If the tides are actually changing, we can vote.
By Majority you mean the old capitalists whose assbackwards thinking is being pushed out of society
Posted on 9/5/14 at 2:25 pm to the808bass
The problem is one viewpoint says "gays are bad and immoral and gross" and the other says "some people are just born gay, and anyone who doesn't see that is evil."
Both are absurd, with no basis in science or reality. Human sexuality is a behavior that occurs. The desire for this behavior is influenced by a myriad of genetic, personality, environmental, and cultural factors. Just as the desire to play basketball. Gay and straight are simple cultures, pure social constructs, and attempts to categorize and simplify a far larger and more dynamic pattern of behavior. That's the actual truth and science to it. But instead one side says everyone is really "straight" and gay people are just wicked or something, and the other side creates a bullshite false dichotomy of gay and straight.
Both are absurd, with no basis in science or reality. Human sexuality is a behavior that occurs. The desire for this behavior is influenced by a myriad of genetic, personality, environmental, and cultural factors. Just as the desire to play basketball. Gay and straight are simple cultures, pure social constructs, and attempts to categorize and simplify a far larger and more dynamic pattern of behavior. That's the actual truth and science to it. But instead one side says everyone is really "straight" and gay people are just wicked or something, and the other side creates a bullshite false dichotomy of gay and straight.
Posted on 9/5/14 at 2:26 pm to genro
quote:
There were bigots and backlash, and they fought arduously against it and they caused a social change in the people's minds.
Is that not what people fighting for gay rights are doing now?
quote:
I don't know what on earth posting pictures of racists is supposed to prove.
That the reaction to court orders then is very similar to the reactions to court orders now. For better or worse, the fight is quite the same, though blacks were much more oppressed then than gays are today.
No difference between the protesters I posted above and people like this
and this
Both are people trying to restrict the right of other people.
I fail to see the difference between then and now.
quote:
Instead of maintaining the struggle and fighting the arduous process, they are simply having solitary activist judges change the law, and I guess sort of "hoping" the culture catches up eventually.
The desegregation and voting laws changed well before it was accepted in the places where the problems were.
Really no different with gay marriage now.
Brown vs Board of Education happened in 1954. Mississippi fought it tooth and nail and didn't completely comply until 1970.
source: LINK
This post was edited on 9/5/14 at 2:31 pm
Posted on 9/5/14 at 2:32 pm to genro
I think winning the hearts and minds on the issue of gay marriage may prove even more difficult for homosexuals in certain parts of the country than even the civil rights movement. Its so ingrained in some people minds that homosexuality is amoral and affront to their religion that no amount of speeches, demonstrations, education will change their minds. You hear it from people like Gene Mills of the Louisiana Family Forum all the time saying that race is not a choice but homosexuality is a choice when comparing the civil rights movement to gay rights. When facing those that think like him what would you suggest as a strategy to win his heart and mind?
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