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re: So special counsel investigating Trump for obstruction of justice per Fox news.

Posted on 6/14/17 at 7:35 pm to
Posted by VOLhalla
Knoxville
Member since Feb 2011
4465 posts
Posted on 6/14/17 at 7:35 pm to
No, I'm not. Which is why I didn't say that Trump committed obstruction. Nixon had the authority to shut down federal investigations of himself, didn't he? Yet, why was impeding a federal investigation one of the articles of impeachment drawn up against him by Congress?
Posted by SDVTiger
Cabo San Lucas
Member since Nov 2011
74402 posts
Posted on 6/14/17 at 7:36 pm to
Not reading VOLhalla posts is not a good quality

Ive read enough of your posts to know your agenda
Posted by bonhoeffer45
Member since Jul 2016
4367 posts
Posted on 6/14/17 at 7:40 pm to
quote:

I used the word territory deliberately - I'm not saying Trump committed an actual crime here. But what matters isn't the law as much as what Congress believes is an impeachable offense. Impeding a federal investigation may not be a crime for the President but it was an article of impreachment drawn up by Congress against Nixon.




Bingo. And "high crimes and misdemeanors" is incredibly broad and somewhat undefined.

This is also broad
quote:

No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.


And the recourse is political in nature for both. Namely congress. As a check on abuse of power.

That's the system the founders wanted, and its the system we have. Flawed or not.

If congress is convinced Trump's actions serve as the basis for obstruction of justice as they define it, and his actions fit their definition of either of those things I mentioned above, they have the right and ability to take political action.
This post was edited on 6/14/17 at 7:43 pm
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
64871 posts
Posted on 6/14/17 at 7:45 pm to
quote:

No, I'm not. Which is why I didn't say that Trump committed obstruction. Nixon had the authority to shut down federal investigations of himself, didn't he? Yet, why was impeding a federal investigation one of the articles of impeachment drawn up against him by Congress?


Because (1) both houses of Congress were firmly under control of Democrats and (2) just as they are now, Democrats were willing to ignore the law when it got in the way of their political agenda.
This post was edited on 6/14/17 at 7:53 pm
Posted by Bass Tiger
Member since Oct 2014
46417 posts
Posted on 6/14/17 at 7:54 pm to
[quote]Because (1) both houses of Congress were firmly under control of Democrats and (2) just as they are now, they were willing to ignore the law when it got in the way of their political agenda. [/quote]

Your post has some verbiage that could be used to define what is the "DC Swamp".
Posted by Errerrerrwere
Member since Aug 2015
38408 posts
Posted on 6/14/17 at 7:58 pm to
quote:

I've tried to stay objective today and hoped things could die down a little. But this shows us the left doesn't give a frick and are becoming more and more dangerous to our way of life


You're right! I have as well. Thought this could may have been a turning point.

IF this happens. There will be war to pay. And we will hit them hard.

Blee dat!
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
64871 posts
Posted on 6/14/17 at 7:59 pm to
quote:

Your post has some verbiage that could be used to define what is the "DC Swamp".






You're right. But for the Democrat wet-dream to come true they'd have to have the numbers in congress to make it work. In short, they'd have to have majorities in both houses, including 3/4 of the Senate.

I've got a better chance at having Brittany Spears offering to pay me $1 millon to be her sex slave than Democrats do at controlling 3/4 of the senate.

Impeachment ain't happening.
Posted by Errerrerrwere
Member since Aug 2015
38408 posts
Posted on 6/14/17 at 8:16 pm to
quote:

Comey testified that he interpreted Trump's statements as an order to end a federal investigation into Flynn. That's obstruction territory


REEEE-Tard!

Trump has the power to end an investigation as the POTUS!

Duuuuuuumb- frick!

Next...
Posted by TigerDoc
Texas
Member since Apr 2004
9914 posts
Posted on 6/14/17 at 8:26 pm to
quote:

So we're opening an investigation based on a disgruntled fired employee's FEELINGS now?! Comey is an attorney and former prosecutor- he knows what obstruction is. If it was obstruction, he would've definitively said it was. Instead, he said he couldn't say.


The evidence of obstruction will include memos written contemporaneous to the meetings and calls with Trump and the contemporaneous conversations he had with at least 5 FBI officials shortly after the meeting, all of which occurred long before his firing. He will also almost surely testify before the Grand Jury. His Congressional testimony is probably lagniappe.

As for demurring on the question of whether what he witnessed was obstruction of justice, I believe his answer was that it was a question he was sure Mueller would be addressing in the course of his investigation. He was tipping us all off to an obstruction investigation without directly answering the question.
This post was edited on 6/14/17 at 10:08 pm
Posted by Errerrerrwere
Member since Aug 2015
38408 posts
Posted on 6/14/17 at 8:30 pm to
Comey would have broken the fricking law had he mentioned anything about Trump obstructing and him not saying anything for months.

Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 6/14/17 at 8:43 pm to
They are going to investigate Trump right into reelection
Posted by bonhoeffer45
Member since Jul 2016
4367 posts
Posted on 6/14/17 at 8:44 pm to
quote:

You're right. But for the Democrat wet-dream to come true they'd have to have the numbers in congress to make it work. In short, they'd have to have majorities in both houses, including 3/4 of the Senate.

I've got a better chance at having Brittany Spears offering to pay me $1 millon to be her sex slave than Democrats do at controlling 3/4 of the senate.

Impeachment ain't happening.





The other, bigger thing Trump has to worry about is when or if public support for him in districts or states with Republican representatives becomes flipped.

The wall on Nixon didn't break when Democrats got 3/4 majorities. They never did. It broke when his party leadership came to him amidst his polls dropping below 50% with Republicans for the first time and them saying they would not stop impeachment. The next day he resigned.
Posted by CelticDog
Member since Apr 2015
42867 posts
Posted on 6/14/17 at 8:44 pm to
Pence is getting fitted for his CIC outfit. 5 stars and the navy whites for summer.
Posted by TigerDoc
Texas
Member since Apr 2004
9914 posts
Posted on 6/14/17 at 8:47 pm to
Which law do you mean?

Good basic question, though. This was an odd situation. Ordinarily he'd disclose to the AG, but he testified he knew that sessions would need to eventually recuse himself, which he eventually did. There were chain of command issues at DOJ at the time - discussed here.

He did report up the chain of command about the improper phone calls.
Posted by Errerrerrwere
Member since Aug 2015
38408 posts
Posted on 6/14/17 at 8:55 pm to
Nah. Had Comey suspected obstruction it wasn't as if he had nowhere to go because of a breach in his chain of command. He could have went to Congress if he had to. But he did nothing.

However, Comey should be a lot more worried about 18 USC 641; but the excuse, "well, he simply had nowhere to go due to Sessions's recusal; won't help him either in a federal court.

Posted by berrycajun
Baton Rouge
Member since May 2016
6907 posts
Posted on 6/14/17 at 9:01 pm to
I have a question- sort of off topic - but what's the investigation into money laundering the trump haters keep taking about? Is there really an investigation?
Posted by themunch
Earth. maybe
Member since Jan 2007
64754 posts
Posted on 6/14/17 at 9:10 pm to
Thanks for the political analysis Hoefer. You gettin paid right?
Posted by Haughton99
Haughton
Member since Feb 2009
6124 posts
Posted on 6/14/17 at 9:10 pm to
Nobody knows and if they say they do they are either lying or part of the Special Counsels team who happens to post here.

There are many people on twitter with "sources" saying the NY AG has a case going against trump from money issues and people have looked at mueller's team and guessed that money issues might be part of the investigation.
This post was edited on 6/14/17 at 9:11 pm
Posted by themunch
Earth. maybe
Member since Jan 2007
64754 posts
Posted on 6/14/17 at 9:11 pm to
Money laundering for Russians my man.
Posted by RCDfan1950
United States
Member since Feb 2007
35027 posts
Posted on 6/14/17 at 9:18 pm to
quote:

They are going to investigate Trump right into reelection


Far beyond "reelection" if this keeps up, GT. Given what is an obvious Coup attempt, the Right will give him Martial Law if that is what is required to drain the Swamp. The way things are going, that is likely what it will take.

Meuller is getting in deep.
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