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Message
re: Missouri Bill Would Warn Parents of Evolution Boogeyman
Posted on 2/21/14 at 11:01 am to emcee422
Posted on 2/21/14 at 11:01 am to emcee422
quote:
Its no different than a scientist espousing the tenants of gravity or the laws of thermodynamics.
Seriously, don't bother.
You will go down this rabbit hole, and 27 pages later, you will wonder why you bothered and nothing will have changed at all.
And NC_Tigah is one of the guys that actually believes Evolution takes place.
Just wait till the young earthers/creationists/ID proponents crawl out of the primordial sludge.
1
Posted on 2/21/14 at 11:04 am to Fun Bunch
quote:We've been over this. If the US National Academy of Science says TOE is the unifying principle in the study of biology, the US National Academy of Science is FOS.
The US National Academy of Science says it is the unifying principle in the study of biology. Virtually all scientists who research in life sciences agree. It is generally held to be so.
Cells, DNA, heritably, anatomy, physiology, taxonomy, etc., are all core to biology. They are all 100% teachable with ZERO KNOWLEDGE OF EVOLUTION. Evolution OTOH cannot be taught without knowledge of many of those elements.
Posted on 2/21/14 at 11:06 am to upgrayedd
quote:
HS and middle school biology can be taught with or without the details of evolution. The roles of mitochondria and photosynthesis can still be taught. It's not the "evisceration of biology".
I can also teach the principles of hydraulic flow by giving you a formula. But to understand how that formula is derived, now I need calculus. So, I'd argue that excluding evolution would oomit half of the story. Evisceration? Maybe not, maybe so.
Posted on 2/21/14 at 11:07 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
Just wait till the young earthers/creationists/ID proponents crawl out of the primordial sludge
I like you.
Posted on 2/21/14 at 11:14 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Cells, DNA, heritably, anatomy, physiology, taxonomy, etc., are all core to biology. They are all 100% teachable with ZERO KNOWLEDGE OF EVOLUTION. Evolution OTOH cannot be taught without knowledge of many of those elements.
Thats because evolution is the answer to the next question. Sure you can learn about how all of these processes work, however the next step is how they came to be. Something that is that big a piece of the puzzle should be included in the curriculum.
Posted on 2/21/14 at 11:16 am to emcee422
quote:What?
Its no different than a scientist espousing the tenants of gravity or the laws of thermodynamics.
You're all over the place.
Let's fix the argument.
Evolution is fascinating science. It is valid theory, as valid as the above "tenants" you noted. It should be taught.
If a teacher, OTOH claims Evolution is THE central tenet to biology, I'm not sure I'd want him teaching the ACTUAL central tenets of the subject.
Posted on 2/21/14 at 11:24 am to NC_Tigah
No one is claiming that evolution is the end all be all, or the one thing that should be taught if we teach anything. I'm just a proponent of teaching it with and alongside the other subjects that have been mentioned. I think you are the one who is "all over the place" here.
Posted on 2/21/14 at 11:37 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
But I'm not getting into one of your nonsensical, obtuse arguments.
NC downplaying the importance of evolution is really one of the most bizarre things I have seen on this board, and that is saying something
Posted on 2/21/14 at 11:38 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Cells, DNA, heritably, anatomy, physiology, taxonomy, etc., are all core to biology
and all of them only make sense IN RELATION TO EACH OTHER in light of what we know about evolution by natural selection
damn this is an insane argument
Posted on 2/21/14 at 11:41 am to emcee422
quote:
So, I'd argue that excluding evolution would oomit half of the story.
And none of this is relevant to having an understanding of the science. As someone who has taken many, many, many biology classes, the theory of evolution is normally mentioned in passing. In fact, we spent very little time on it in my basic biology classes in college. I think we spent as much time on it as we did just so the teacher could needle the Bible-thumping nursing students in there. It's not a core part of the curriculum.
Posted on 2/21/14 at 11:48 am to upgrayedd
quote:
we spent very little time on it in my basic biology class
huge tragedy
we thus end up with a population that fears and misunderstands it
Posted on 2/21/14 at 11:52 am to TigerRad
quote:
huge tragedy
we thus end up with a population that fears and misunderstands it
That is not the case at all. It's something they expect you to accept. It receives just as much attention as any other subject in a basic biology class. If you want to get in depth about it, there are evolution classes, just like there are microbiology classes and botany classes - all of which are covered in Biology 101.
Posted on 2/21/14 at 11:56 am to upgrayedd
quote:
HS and middle school biology can be taught with or without the details of evolution.
sure you could do this, but why would you want to? its a pretty darn big piece of biology, and actually quite interesting and stimulates conversation. Why omit it?
Its not like there is a real scientific debate on the subject. And its a pretty basic concept that you kids can understand, much more so than molecular things.
Posted on 2/21/14 at 12:04 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:
sure you could do this, but why would you want to? its a pretty darn big piece of biology, and actually quite interesting and stimulates conversation. Why omit it?
Its not like there is a real scientific debate on the subject. And its a pretty basic concept that you kids can understand, much more so than molecular things.
I completely agree.
My point is some people are acting as though if it's omitted or changed in a MO HS setting, then the scientific world will crumble into another dark age. If these kids go to college, they will understand that they will have to know the theory of evolution. Whether or not they choose to believe it is a different story.
Again, FWIW, I think omitting it from the curriculum is dumb and I disagree with it.
And you're right about the molecular level. Something as simple as a mutated strain of the flu is an easily identifiable and indisputable result of evolution.
Posted on 2/21/14 at 12:06 pm to emcee422
quote:
No one is claiming that evolution is the end all be all
quote:Sounds like someone is making that claim.
“Evolution by natural selection is the unifying principle in the study of biology”
Posted on 2/21/14 at 12:08 pm to Tigah in the ATL
quote:Hmm. I suppose.
Do you think the people sponsoring this bill consider themselves libertarians or tea partiers?
What's you point? I don't follow.
Posted on 2/21/14 at 12:09 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:You wouldn't.
HS and middle school biology can be taught with or without the details of evolution.
sure you could do this, but why would you want to?
Posted on 2/21/14 at 12:12 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:I guess I'll ask again like I do in all of these threads but unless one is a young earth creationist, what exactly does evolution have to do with religion?
Sounds like someone is making that claim.
One could teach evolution with no problem at all and never bring up religion. And, should one of his students bring it up, simply say that he's not discussing if a God caused evolution because it's not necessary for him to do so in order to teach evolution.
Why is this idea so difficult to execute?
Posted on 2/21/14 at 12:17 pm to SettleDown
quote:I suspect you unwittingly answered your own question.
I guess I'll ask again like I do in all of these threads but unless one is a young earth creationist, what exactly does evolution have to do with religion?
One could teach evolution with no problem at all and never bring up religion. And, should one of his students bring it up, simply say that he's not discussing if a God caused evolution because it's not necessary for him to do so in order to teach evolution.
But to clarify "should one of his students bring 'it' up," it all depends on what the meaning of "it" is.
Posted on 2/21/14 at 12:21 pm to TigerRad
quote:How does DNA "only make sense in light of what we know about evolution by natural selection"
Cells, DNA, heritably, anatomy, physiology, taxonomy, etc., are all core to biology
and all of them only make sense IN RELATION TO EACH OTHER in light of what we know about evolution by natural selection
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