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re: Life for Christians in Iraq worse now than under Sadaam
Posted on 10/21/14 at 11:13 pm to Wild Thang
Posted on 10/21/14 at 11:13 pm to Wild Thang
quote:
And, do you need to take a leap of faith to believe that this lecture explains how nothing became something?
You asked for a possible scientific mechanism for how the Big Bang occurred, and I showed you that a VERY specific and reproducible mechanism has been proposed. You are now moving the goalposts, claiming that actual PROOF that is what happened is needed to adequately address your question.
I can only lead you to the water.
3
Posted on 10/21/14 at 11:15 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Sounds like science has no answer to my question, without taking crazy leaps of faith!
A demonstrable mechanism proposed to account for a given event isn't faith, it is a hypothesis. They aren't just saying "hey, this sounds cool. We'll go with that."
Posted on 10/21/14 at 11:16 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
The proposed mechanisms are reproducible in experimental systems.
Sure the actual event is not provable, but the ability for it to happen is supported by evidence.
Enough to make a universe outta nothing?
I don't mean to bust your balls, and don't really care what you believe in honestly.
It just amazes me how my question is never answered. You tried, and I salute you.
Tried with a leap of faith in science, but you tried.
This post was edited on 10/21/14 at 11:18 pm
Posted on 10/21/14 at 11:17 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
I can only lead you to the water.
When You assume on faith that water exists.
But call it science.
Posted on 10/21/14 at 11:20 pm to Wild Thang
quote:
Enough to make a universe outta nothing?
Yes
quote:
It just amazes me how my question is never answered.
I gave you a scientific explanation for creation of a universe without a creator. If you were asking for proof of what happened the instant prior to the Big Bang, then you simply have a poor understanding of scientific evidence, theories and hypothesis. I can't help with that.
quote:
I solute you.
I'm beginning to understand why my answer to your question fell on deaf ears.
Posted on 10/21/14 at 11:21 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
You asked for a possible scientific mechanism for how the Big Bang occurred, and I showed you that a VERY specific and reproducible mechanism has been proposed.
I assume in a controlled environment, no?
Are we to assume that while nothing existed, some happenstance, scientifically, just out the blue happened?
Again, do you not see the irony?
Posted on 10/21/14 at 11:22 pm to Wild Thang
quote:
When You assume on faith that water exists.
I assume water exists because I can physically see it, touch it, taste it, observe it's different states and properties, analyze it's molecular properties and do all of this with precisely reproducible results.
I can do none of those things with any deity ever proposed. I simply have to believe.
Posted on 10/21/14 at 11:22 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
I'm beginning to understand why my answer to your question fell on deaf ears.
edited before your quote. Typo I corrected. No reason to be the low denominator.
Posted on 10/21/14 at 11:24 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
I assume water exists because I can physically see it, touch it, taste it, observe it's different states and properties, analyze it's molecular properties and do all of this with precisely reproducible results.
It was just a saying.
quote:
I can do none of those things with any deity ever proposed.
True.
quote:
I simply have to believe.
In both some 'hypothesis'
and the Deity. A true pickle.
Posted on 10/21/14 at 11:24 pm to Wild Thang
quote:
Are we to assume that while nothing existed, some happenstance, scientifically, just out the blue happened?
You don't assume it happened, you suggest it happened based on evidence and then look for more evidence to support that hypothesis. That's how science works.
"God did it" isn't a hypothesis, because it is neither supported by scientific evidence nor is it disprovable. Could God have done it? Sure, but there is no place in science for something that is outside of science.
Posted on 10/21/14 at 11:26 pm to Wild Thang
Again, something that supposedly exists outside of science and is not bound by science cannot be judged using science. "God exists" isn't a hypothesis, it's just claim.
Posted on 10/21/14 at 11:30 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Again, something that supposedly exists outside of science and is not bound by science cannot be judged using science. "God exists" isn't a hypothesis, it's just claim.
Sounds like leaps of faith either way with regards to nothing just becoming something.
Most likely beyond human understanding.
Either way, nothing you have said is close to explaining how the big bang was actually able to happen.
Just human guesses.
Posted on 10/21/14 at 11:35 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
You don't assume it happened, you suggest it happened based on evidence and then look for more evidence to support that hypothesis. That's how science works.
That's great, but you assume science hypothesis as more credible than faith which is just arrogant. Do you consider science as infallable at the guessing stage?
Or do you assume science can answer all questions with regards to the universe?
Posted on 10/21/14 at 11:36 pm to Wild Thang
Just an example....
Do you believe in ghosts?
Do you believe in ghosts?
Posted on 10/21/14 at 11:37 pm to Wild Thang
Is that what Christianity is about? The explanation of our existence? I thought it was about the meaning of our existence. Those are two different questions. By debating the scientific theories, you are hinging your religion on the absolutely retarded literal story of Genesis (so retarded in fact that even St Augustine in 600 AD recognized that it shouldn't be taken literally).
It's a question of why versus how. Evolution/Big Bang doesn't pretend to answer why. Christianity's literal answer of how makes no sense. What's the point of this argument? It seems you should be pointing out the obvious - Christianity answers questions that evolution doesn't even address. Spirituality, forgiveness, fulfillment, heavenly reward, etc. Isn't that why people are Christians? Or is it really because it answers scientific questions on our history?
It's a question of why versus how. Evolution/Big Bang doesn't pretend to answer why. Christianity's literal answer of how makes no sense. What's the point of this argument? It seems you should be pointing out the obvious - Christianity answers questions that evolution doesn't even address. Spirituality, forgiveness, fulfillment, heavenly reward, etc. Isn't that why people are Christians? Or is it really because it answers scientific questions on our history?
Posted on 10/21/14 at 11:37 pm to Roger Klarvin
Get a room, y'all two 
Posted on 10/21/14 at 11:40 pm to Wild Thang
quote:
but you assume science hypothesis as more credible than faith
Uh...yeah
Posted on 10/21/14 at 11:41 pm to genro
quote:
you are hinging your religion on the absolutely retarded literal story of Genesis
In no way am I doing that. I believe in the Big Bang. My question is what started something from nothing? It's beyond our understanding IMO.
quote:
I thought it was about the meaning of our existence.
It is actually.
Which is why my first post pages back said it was more about shared values/morals/actions.
Posted on 10/21/14 at 11:42 pm to Wild Thang
quote:
Or do you assume science can answer all questions with regards to the universe?
Currently? Not even close.
However, one day in the very distant future? Yes, I believe ultimately it is possible to answer every question about the physical universe with science because scientific principles govern the universe.
Posted on 10/21/14 at 11:42 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Uh...yeah
Even when it takes a leap of faith.
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