re: Interesting new research data on guns in America

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i don't believe race has anything to do with it

that doesn't mean that proclivity for certain actions/behaviors amongst groups can't shift when you divide groups into different races

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This is a contradiction.

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This is a contradiction.

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not really

it's only a contradiction if you assume that genetics (and more specifically, genetics leading to different races) is our only controlling variable

i believe genetics gives us all different "speed limits", but that the gap between 0 and that speed limit is much larger than the various comparative speed limits. that gap between 0 and our limit is molded by non-genetic factors

those factors take different forms. rearing, culture, etc...down to simple luck/chance (a prodigy in one era would almost always be a social outcast in the preceding era)

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. I would bet a coca-cola that poor white people get shot at about the same rate as poor black people

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I like my Coca-Cola on ice in a glass

















Play close attention to New Mexico, Washington, Oregon, Montana, SD, Michigan, and Maine.

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so to make some seeping generalization like "black people are more violent" is false. it's a small subset of that group it's not some abject race thing (as i've said a few times in this thread)

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I am not arguing that point. Incidence is simply not proof of causality. Even if one was to argue a predominance of violence in any particular demographic based on the clearly defined data, it would be wise to address the social, spiritual, and cultural differences of that demographic not the genetic differences determining integumentary phenotype.

However there is good evidence (much more than what I was able to piece together in a 15 min Google search) indicating blacks are both the most common perpetuators of murder by firearms and the most common victims of firearm murder. Incidentally Latinos fall into the second place for both of those positions. It is simply silly to make statements that it is all about poverty. Clearly, impoverished predominantly non black communities or predominantly non Hispanic communities do not statistically have the same problem with gun violence.

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but you can just as easily point to socioeconomics

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then why do the maps above show stark contradiction to that?

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I truly believe that if somehow the roles were reversed and whites lived through a history that left them in the same confines of black culture in America today, the results would be similar.


well, asians and latinos, statistically, kind of disprove this notion

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But that's not true. None of those groups have been through the same past as the black population. They have not (at least on the same scale) been through the same things. There has been an influx of immigrants from those cultures. But none have been held here for years as property with no education and suddenly thrust into being citizens that were still treated as second class. I think out social programs of today and not putting responsibility on parenting are a main reason we are still in that situation, but you can't say that Asian American experience is the same.


To get back on topic, it just means that there is a problem in the black community. That's a fact. But I believe it's because of the circumstances they're in and choose to continue to live in that causes it. Not because the black population is inherently violent.

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I would bet that as income goes up the odds of being shot go down across the board regardless of a persons skin color.

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But I'd bet it is still higher for blacks over any other race. It's not like the rich blacks (athletes,rappers,etc) steer clear of gun involvement.

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then why do the maps above show stark contradiction to that?

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So your maps show that poor people don't commit more crimes

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It's not like the rich blacks (athletes,rappers,etc) steer clear of gun involvement.

Wow. Yep, because clearly athletes and rappers are the only rich blacks (or at least a high enough proportion to be representative of wealthy blacks as a whole).

Only on the poliboard.

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Yeah that seems to be more of a nurture issue than a nature issue.

The bringing of "coolies" to America to supplement the African slave shortage

CHINESE AND IRISH
Three thousand Irish immigrants work mainly on the Union Pacific line going West to East. In 1866, 3,000 Chinese are hired and soon make up 75% of the Central Pacific (West to East) workforce of 10,000 to 12,000 men. Thought incapable of hard work, their boiling of water for green tea means they escape the dysentery that strikes down the Irish. And the Chinese are rarely drunk. The Irish live in tents and die instantly in avalanches. The Chinese prefer tunnels but some survive rock fall only to be buried alive. But the Irish don’t pay for their board. Wanting equality, the Chinese strike in 1867, and demand better wages and an end to whippings. Their food supplies are blocked and they’re starved back into work.

“They were considered somewhere between human and animal. They were not expected to survive. They were expected to come here and work and die." Margaret Cho

History of Chineese involvement in building infrastructure of US

Internment of Japanese long after blacks were freed and an active part of military enforcement of camps

More Asian racism:

Asian Americans[edit]





A Sinophobic cartoon called "Yellow terror" appearing in the United States in 1899
See also: Sinophobia, Chinese American history, Anti-Chinese sentiment in the United States, Anti-Japanese sentiment in the United States and Yellow Peril

In the Pacific States, racism was primarily directed against the resident Asian immigrants. Several immigration laws discriminated against the Asians, and at different points the ethnic Chinese or other groups were banned from entering the United States.[46] Nonwhites were prohibited from testifying against whites, a prohibition extended to the Chinese by People v. Hall.[47] The Chinese were often subject to harder labor on the First Transcontinental Railroad and often performed the more dangerous tasks such as using dynamite to make pathways through the mountains.[48] Anti-Chinese sentiment was also rife in early Los Angeles, culminating in a notorious 1871 riot in which a mob attacked Chinese residents.[49]

During World War II, the United States created internment camps for Japanese-American citizens in fear that they would be used as spies for the Japanese.[50] Currently implemented immigration laws are still largely plagued with national origin-based quotas that are unfavorable to Asian countries due to large populations and historically low U.S. immigration rates[51]

Over the winter spanning 1929 and 1930, anti-Filipino racism exploded in the Central Coast area surrounding Watsonville over labor tensions and general xenophobia. Filipino farm workers were terrorized for "taking jobs from whites", and for mixing with white women; in California, and many states, Filipinos were barred from marrying White Americans (a group which included Hispanic Americans). Violence was directed towards Filipinos, some resulting in deaths, and a Filipino establishment was dynamited. A race war broke out in the Bay Area, with roving gangs of whites pulling Filipinos from their homes and dwellings, until the violence subsided. As a result of the riots, California's attitude changed towards importing cheaper Asian labor, moving towards utilizing cheaper Mexican labor instead.[52]