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re: How can people with morals survive in an immoral world?
Posted on 7/25/14 at 10:09 pm to Revelator
Posted on 7/25/14 at 10:09 pm to Revelator
quote:
For the sake of this discussion, it doesn't matter what label is affixed to those who don't believe in selling out their morals to achieve a goal with those who would.
But see, you've now rendered your own premise moot. If most of the people claiming your moral system ignore it, and violate social norms at a far greater rate than those who reject your moral system, then your original post is utterly meaningless.
You have admitted, albeit indirectly, that it isn't the belief system but the individual that matters. One doesn't need the ten commandments or religion to be moral, or have superior morals to those who claim such a moral system.
This was other one of your "Rah Rah" pro-Christianity threads and it flopped miserably. You attempted to not so subtly argue that society is floundering morally because there are too many people who don't follow the Bible.
This post was edited on 7/25/14 at 10:11 pm
1
Posted on 7/25/14 at 10:11 pm to Revelator
I don't agree with that, some of the hardest working, loving, down to earth, moral people I know, I have never ever heard them speak of a god and know for sure they haven't stepped in a church for anything other than a wedding or a funeral in a couple decades.
To say you think someone that isn't scared a vengeful deity may send him into the inferno would have less of a reason to live and make moral decisions is you being intellectually dishonest Rev.
To say you think someone that isn't scared a vengeful deity may send him into the inferno would have less of a reason to live and make moral decisions is you being intellectually dishonest Rev.
Posted on 7/25/14 at 10:11 pm to Wrenchruh
quote:
This notion that morality doesn't exist outside Judeo-Christian teachings is full blown retarded and more than a little insulting.
I never said it didn't.
Posted on 7/25/14 at 10:12 pm to KeyserSoze999
quote:
Being incarcerated means society imposed itself upon you not necessarily is it a badge of immorality, especially if that society itself is immoral.
Name one thing you can be imprisoned for in America that Christianity would not deem immoral.
Posted on 7/25/14 at 10:13 pm to Revelator
You reap what you sow.
Buddha >>> your Jewish magician carpenter
Buddha >>> your Jewish magician carpenter
Posted on 7/25/14 at 10:15 pm to Revelator
quote:
So two individuals are questioned about their involvement in a crime and both are guilty. The first is shown a video of himself committing the act, the second is not. Which is more likely to come clean?
This has literally nothing to do with the post I was responding to.
You said that people are immoral because they don't believe they will face judgement after death. This is demonstrably false.
Posted on 7/25/14 at 10:16 pm to Roger Klarvin
Coming short with those dirty immoral tax collectors
Posted on 7/25/14 at 10:17 pm to Revelator
quote:
I never said it didn't.
You have three times in this thread stated that morality in circling the drain because people don't believe in punishment after death.
Posted on 7/25/14 at 10:18 pm to Burt Reynolds
Actually, Buddha and Jesus were referencing the very same thing. The Roman church just created a religion in man's image out of it for reasons of power and control. Gnostic Christianity and Buddhism parallel each other and both teach about the same kind of enlightenment.
Posted on 7/25/14 at 10:18 pm to SuperSaint
quote:
Coming short with those dirty immoral tax collectors
"And Jesus answering said unto them, 'Render onto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and to God that which is God's.' And they marvelled at him."
Posted on 7/25/14 at 10:19 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
But see, you've now rendered your own premise moot. If most of the people claiming your moral system ignore it, and violate social norms at a far greater rate than those who reject your moral system, then your original post is utterly meaningless.
But I do believe that one who truly believes he will answer for his actions on this earth in the after life will and does conduct himself with greater restraint than one who does not. Our dispute is in who these doers of the word are as opposed to hearers only.
Posted on 7/25/14 at 10:19 pm to Roger Klarvin
possesion of weed; but other countries have jails as well
Posted on 7/25/14 at 10:21 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
This has literally nothing to do with the post I was responding to. You said that people are immoral because they don't believe they will face judgement after death. This is demonstrably false.
It does have bearing on the thread because I think that a person who believes every one of his actions and thoughts are being recorded and will be reviewed at the judgement seat would be more apt to restrain himself morally then one that does not on average. How would he not?
Posted on 7/25/14 at 10:22 pm to Revelator
quote:
I never said it didn't.
Pardon me.
Your parenthetical inclusion of the ten commandments as well as your framing of the argument led me to read between the lines.
If only God had given us an eleventh commandment that stated, "Thou shall not make inferences of a fellow posters intent based in context clues and past post history."
Posted on 7/25/14 at 10:23 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
You have three times in this thread stated that morality in circling the drain because people don't believe in punishment after death.
And on the whole, I do. How does this preclude some non believers from being moral?
Posted on 7/25/14 at 10:25 pm to Revelator
quote:
It ls true that a non believer can be moral in business and life, but it is also true that a person who doesn't believe in a moral standard or an afterlife to answer for those things done in this life would have less restraints to use immoral or amoral tactics to achieve his goals.
Most non-believers believe in some form of a moral standard. Also even if fear of judgment is an extra restraint, it does not necessarily mean that this particular restraint will work. Some believing in this restraint will commit heinous acts and some who don't will be restrained by their base moral standard.
Posted on 7/25/14 at 10:27 pm to KeyserSoze999
quote:
possesion of weed
I haven't met a Christian yet who believes marijuana is morally fine.
Posted on 7/25/14 at 10:29 pm to Revelator
quote:
It does have bearing on the thread because I think that a person who believes every one of his actions and thoughts are being recorded and will be reviewed at the judgement seat would be more apt to restrain himself morally then one that does not on average. How would he not?
Because people are programmed to not think that far ahead.
Moreover, millions of people are wonderfully moral (even by your standards of morality) yet reject Christianity or God altogether. How do you example all the moral people who believe they will face no judgement but are moral anyway? Are they not more genuine than those who fear punishment?
Posted on 7/25/14 at 10:29 pm to Revelator
God thinks this thread sucks.
Posted on 7/25/14 at 10:30 pm to Revelator
quote:
How does this preclude some non believers from being moral?
Because by definition they don't believe in an afterlife, yet obey the law at a far greater rate than those who claim religion do.
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