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Started By
Message
1
Posted on 9/3/17 at 11:21 am to el Gaucho
Dude, I know it's tough when you tout yourself as a small gov conservative but then they take down one of your favorite websites and worlds collide.
Posted on 9/3/17 at 11:21 am to el Gaucho
quote:
Are ISPs truly private? I bet they suck on that government teat hard
You guys aren't seeing the distinction here.
It isn't the ISP that's blocking the website from being seen.
It is the private website hosting companies that are refusing to host their site.
This has nothing to do with net neutrality. The ISPs aren't blocking shite, the web hosting companies have decided they don't want to do business with these people.
Posted on 9/3/17 at 11:44 am to cwill
quote:
What's your solution for businesses owners acting on their personal beliefs?
Are we talking about abstract, or concrete things?There is a difference.
If actual work,or materials(that have a value) are involved,and are a thing that is normally sold or traded,with the final result,being that a profit is earned is the goal.Yet the businessperson decides that investing materials and labor for a particular project,is not in the best interest of his/her business,due to fallout from future customers,buying said concrete items that the business owner sells,refusing service is justified.
Passing on thoughts,it's not the same thing. Thoughts are free and should always be.
This post was edited on 9/3/17 at 12:02 pm
Posted on 9/3/17 at 11:55 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
Should AT&T be able to drop phone service to groups they don't agree with? What about Entergy? What about water and sewage?
Phone, power, and sewage are considered utilities. The Internet is not considered a utility, although there has been a push for a number of years to get it classified as such. The FCC declared broadband as a utility in 2014, but their ruling was a paper tiger that allowed the telcos wiggle room. Now Trump's FCC is trying to undo that ruling completely.
Why net neutrality is even controversial is beyond me. The only losers are the fat cat CEO's and share holders who wont be able to shake down companies like Netflix just because they can anymore. It will be a major win for consumers like you and me and it will be a big win for smaller content creators.
As for freedom of speech, we will see more of these issues of censorship until common carrier status is put in place. For instance, no one boycotts AT&T for giving David Duke telephone service and no one boycotts the Louisiana power company for giving him electricity. Why, then, should we boycott Cloudflare or whomever for giving people like him websites or blogs?
Now, certainly AT&T would disconnect his phone service if they could, but they can't. Why? Because they cannot discriminate with their service since they are officially a common carrier according to the FCC. Phone service is considered a utility and these companies cannot, by law, discriminate. They must serve anyone and everyone who wants their service.
If common carrier status was made law on the Internet, then cloudflare would have to give him a website which would be a win-win for everyone. ANTIFA can have their websites talking about how white people suck and David Duke and Andrew Anglin could have their websites talking about how awesome us white people are. It would protect the Internet hosting sites legally as well since they cannot (by law) be held responsible for content posted by users. Just as AT&T cannot be held responsible for a murder for hire plot planned on their phone lines.
Posted on 9/3/17 at 11:58 am to AUstar
Good post.
Posted on 9/3/17 at 12:03 pm to AUstar
If the Internet was a utility would we have to give it to poor people for free?
Posted on 9/3/17 at 12:11 pm to el Gaucho
Really,the internet is/should be, similar to looking at The Moon.
Everything is free for anybody to see,with all the craters and scars,but if you live in a basement in The Bronx,it's going to cost you some money to go look at it.
Everything is free for anybody to see,with all the craters and scars,but if you live in a basement in The Bronx,it's going to cost you some money to go look at it.
Posted on 9/3/17 at 12:14 pm to asurob1
quote:Nothing stops them from finding another bakery, except a judge.
Nothing stops them finding another ISP.
Posted on 9/3/17 at 12:24 pm to LSUTigersVCURams
Tell us why you think private web hosting services should be made to host their websites..
This post was edited on 9/3/17 at 1:25 pm
Posted on 9/3/17 at 12:24 pm to AUstar
Cell phone service is not yet considered a utility. I don't see anyone protesting their phones be cut off.
Posted on 9/3/17 at 12:28 pm to Iosh
quote:
MFW conservatives get mad about websites "banned from the internet" because their DNS host dropped them
Which is even less problematic.
Posted on 9/3/17 at 12:29 pm to auggie
quote:
If actual work,or materials(that have a value) are involved,and are a thing that is normally sold or traded,with the final result,being that a profit is earned is the goal.Yet the businessperson decides that investing materials and labor for a particular project,is not in the best interest of his/her business,due to fallout from future customers,buying said concrete items that the business owner sells,refusing service is justified.
Passing on thoughts,it's not the same thing. Thoughts are free and should always be.
Doesn't even makes sense, and it's not even ISPs denying service.
Posted on 9/3/17 at 12:31 pm to Tiguar
quote:
Tell me how DS was taken down, then tell me what you understand about net neutrality
Net neutrality is an attempt to regulate content. It's disguised as something else but in the end it's about control.
Posted on 9/3/17 at 12:40 pm to cwill
quote:
Doesn't even makes sense, and it's not even ISPs denying service.
bingo
Posted on 9/3/17 at 12:44 pm to Iosh
quote:
MFW conservatives get mad about websites "banned from the internet" because their DNS host dropped them
Sure it's all a big joke to you now, but you'll be singing a different tune when some deranged Ancap Lolbertarian drives his Hyundai into somebody and Mises.org gets banished to the dark web.
Posted on 9/3/17 at 1:08 pm to LSUTigersVCURams
e: (in before about five dudes post "this but unironically")
This post was edited on 9/3/17 at 1:09 pm
Posted on 9/3/17 at 1:18 pm to auggie
Yeah, I think you're still confused.
Posted on 9/3/17 at 1:25 pm to LSUTigersVCURams
quote:
Sure neo Nazis aren't very sympathettic characters, but this is an absolutely terrible precedent
I 100% agree.
quote:
there is absolutely nothing stopping them from doing it to any other conservative/right wing group
They arent any other conservative/right wing group. They are our nations oldest and most violent group of terrorist that have been spewing racist and terroristic ideologies for well over 100 years.
they are scum. But sadly, even scum is protected by the 1st amendment and I do think it is a very dangerous path to take in banning free speech. i despise them more than anyone but even I feel like it could be a bit of censorship.
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