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Started By
Message
re: Arguments against gay marriage
Posted on 7/31/14 at 8:36 am to amsterdam
Posted on 7/31/14 at 8:36 am to amsterdam
quote:
gay marriage, killing unborn babies, etc.
So you're saying that government should legislate according to issues that you don't particularly have an inclination towards..
That's convenient.
0
Posted on 7/31/14 at 8:36 am to ThePenIsMightier
quote:
Do you think that the powers that be (gay mafia - if you will) are just going to say "well, we got what we wanted. There's no need for us any more."?
that's the big macro issue, but that's more of a liberal-progressive-SJW issue in general
Posted on 7/31/14 at 8:38 am to constant cough
quote:
So if teen pregnancies are down and abortions are also down then what's going on? Are we supposed to believe that teens are having less sex or that they are now more responsible in using birth control?
i'd assume the latter. why does it matter? the "bad" parts are teen pregnancy and abortion. those are lowered
we should be rejoicing
quote:
but it still just doesn't seem believable compared to what I see out in the world,
your memory is faulty or your world is not representative of the world in general
quote:
not to mention all the baby mommas that are prevalent throughout social media.
how exactly did you get to see these random mothers before 2005? how were you monitoring their behaviors in say, 1992?
Posted on 7/31/14 at 8:46 am to benhamin5555
I wouldn't get too worked up over it.
It's a fad that will be all but gone in 100 years.
It's a fad that will be all but gone in 100 years.
Posted on 7/31/14 at 8:47 am to amsterdam
quote:
However, if you do not believe in God then there are no objective moral values in your mind. Therefore you are free to create your own value system. For instance gay marriage, killing unborn babies, etc.
nice list there at the end. Really comparable issues.
Posted on 7/31/14 at 8:50 am to EST
quote:
Gay marriage is a perversion of marriage and a sign of a society in decline.
When has society ever been perfect in the history of man?
Posted on 7/31/14 at 8:51 am to constant cough
quote:
using birth control
a sin
Posted on 7/31/14 at 8:51 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i'd assume the latter. why does it matter? the "bad" parts are teen pregnancy and abortion. those are lowered
we should be rejoicing
Sure if it's true. I'm just not buying into the things are getting better narrative when it just doesn't seem believable to me.
quote:
your memory is faulty or your world is not representative of the world in general
quote:
how exactly did you get to see these random mothers before 2005? how were you monitoring their behaviors in say, 1992?
I don't know I think my world is fairly representative. Lafayette is about your average mid size city in America and I went to public school in the 90s and there were plenty of teen pregnancies then and I've seen nothing in our culture over the last 18 years since I've been out of high school that would make me believe that teen behavior has changed.
Posted on 7/31/14 at 8:58 am to constant cough
quote:
I don't know I think my world is fairly representative. Lafayette is about your average mid size city in America and I went to public school in the 90s and there were plenty of teen pregnancies then and I've seen nothing in our culture over the last 18 years since I've been out of high school that would make me believe that teen behavior has changed.
Ahhh, yes, anecdotal evidence. The best kind.
Posted on 7/31/14 at 9:17 am to benhamin5555
Why stop at 1:1 gay marriage? If marriage is going to be redefined how ever we want what about the plurals? After all it's about what consenting adults want.
So if marriage can be redefined from what it is today (one man, one woman) why not 2 wome 1 man or whatever other combination the consenting adults want.
So if marriage can be redefined from what it is today (one man, one woman) why not 2 wome 1 man or whatever other combination the consenting adults want.
Posted on 7/31/14 at 9:40 am to constant cough
quote:You hang out with a lot of teenagers these days?
I don't know I think my world is fairly representative. Lafayette is about your average mid size city in America and I went to public school in the 90s and there were plenty of teen pregnancies then and I've seen nothing in our culture over the last 18 years since I've been out of high school that would make me believe that teen behavior has changed.
Posted on 7/31/14 at 9:50 am to Mid Iowa Tiger
quote:
Why stop at 1:1 gay marriage? If marriage is going to be redefined how ever we want what about the plurals? After all it's about what consenting adults want.
So if marriage can be redefined from what it is today (one man, one woman) why not 2 wome 1 man or whatever other combination the consenting adults want.
What's it to us how people choose to share their lives and property? I mean, I don't get it, but why should society disallow people from bringing whatever misery they want on themselves, as long as everyone involved consents?
Posted on 7/31/14 at 9:55 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
this is incorrect, at least in all cases
morality is nothing more than a list of behaviors that society has deemed to be disruptive, and this occurred long before i was born
murder, stealing, incest, etc. these are all social mores and immoral, and we have data to back it up
religion just used these concepts, added in a god (and back in the date, this occurred via state control), and voila
SFP, You obviously do not understand what I mean when I say objective moral values. Without God you can only at best have a subjective and relative to you set of moral values. This is demonstrated by the fact that different cultures over time have had different set of values. Nazi's and cannibals for example did not think what they were doing was wrong.
The question then becomes how can you determine that anything (such as rape or murder) is objectively wrong? As in wrong regardless of your value set. The answer is God can be the only source of an objective moral value set. By no means is this a Christian view point. The overwhelming majority of atheists believe the same thing. In fact I think Sam Harris may be the only atheist Im aware of that's believes you can have objective moral values aside from God, but in this he is in the minority. Almost all prominent atheists hold that morals are subjective and relative to your culture
Posted on 7/31/14 at 10:05 am to amsterdam
quote:
SFP, You obviously do not understand what I mean when I say objective moral values. Without God you can only at best have a subjective and relative to you set of moral values. This is demonstrated by the fact that different cultures over time have had different set of values. Nazi's and cannibals for example did not think what they were doing was wrong.
The question then becomes how can you determine that anything (such as rape or murder) is objectively wrong? As in wrong regardless of your value set. The answer is God can be the only source of an objective moral value set. By no means is this a Christian view point. The overwhelming majority of atheists believe the same thing. In fact I think Sam Harris may be the only atheist Im aware of that's believes you can have objective moral values aside from God, but in this he is in the minority. Almost all prominent atheists hold that morals are subjective and relative to your culture
You obviously do not understand what SFP was saying.
Religion arose from a set of moral values, not the other way around.
Posted on 7/31/14 at 10:16 am to benhamin5555
It's not "gay" marriage. It's "same sex" marriage.
Posted on 7/31/14 at 10:29 am to benhamin5555
An aside... I just saw an article on Yahoo news that a female basketball referee is marrying her partner of 20 years. I had no idea that there were lesbians in women's basketball. I'm shocked. Shocked, I say.
Posted on 7/31/14 at 10:39 am to amsterdam
quote:
Without God you can only at best have a subjective and relative to you set of moral values.
the thing is with religion, you still have subjective set of values. You just call them objective by referencing them to a book(s).
Its exactly the same, you are just in self denial thinking its different.
Posted on 7/31/14 at 10:43 am to amsterdam
quote:\
how can you determine that anything (such as rape or murder) is objectively wrong?
because you are denying someone else's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Posted on 7/31/14 at 11:03 am to amsterdam
quote:
Because it's a sin. It's really the only argument that matters. As a Christian I believe God is the source of all objective moral values. I serve God and follow his word. Therefore if God believes homosexual sex is an abomination then that is the view I follow. The bible states repeatedly that marriage is between a man and a woman. Unfortunately for the politically correct crowd in this country God does not bend to what you consider to be ok. However, if you do not believe in God then there are no objective moral values in your mind. Therefore you are free to create your own value system. For instance gay marriage, killing unborn babies, etc. this argument will always come down to God, and there will always be an argument so long as you have Christians willing to fight for what is right in Gods eye
Do you think driving over the speed limit is a sin? Then why dont you Christian hacks protest that. You hypocrites need to stop being so selective in which so called sins you find offensive.
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