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Started By
Message
re: 18 U.S. Code § 641 - Comey's Legal Issue
Posted on 6/9/17 at 10:58 am to John McClane
Posted on 6/9/17 at 10:58 am to John McClane
No matter what you think The key thing to remember is Prosecutors are known to overreach 
0
Posted on 6/9/17 at 11:04 am to BBONDS25
quote:
Without authority conveys any record of the United States or any department or agency thereof.
641 is a conversion statute. I really don't see how it can apply here. I don't think it's even close.
Posted on 6/9/17 at 11:05 am to BBONDS25
quote:Nothing about the statute describes "leaking."
You are equating to Dean? Leaking govt property to the press is very different than testifying about a document in a hearing.
quote:Tell me what verb in this statute covers reading it aloud over the phone. This might cover the act of Comey taking a physical copy of the memos home, if you can make some argument about how "without authority" applies to the FBI Director. It doesn't say shite about leaking their content in a conversation.
without authority, sells, conveys or disposes of any record, voucher, money, or thing of value
This post was edited on 6/9/17 at 11:07 am
Posted on 6/9/17 at 11:08 am to Decatur
quote:
641 is a conversion statute. I really don't see how it can apply here. I don't think it's even close.
At this point , we can safely conclude that you don't want to see.
It saddens me that we have became a nation of intellectually dishonest people who simply choose a side and stick with it regardless of facts.
ANYONE who has EVER worked in the federal government at ANY capacity knows about the federal records keeping act and knows that it applies to anything of this nature.
As I said, reverse the situation and imagine that instead of giving a friend memos that he thought made Trump look bad, imagine instead he had thrown away memos that he knew showed Trump had committed a crime. You would be on here calling for Comey's head because those are not his private memos.
Posted on 6/9/17 at 11:09 am to Salmon
quote:
Y'all don't think Comey got council on all of this before he made his statements?
It doesn't mean that he listened to them. It's pretty clear that this guy is narcissistic and is prone to making mistakes/using bad judgement.
Posted on 6/9/17 at 11:13 am to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
quote:
At this point , we can safely conclude that you don't want to see.
I just don't see how an embezzlement statute applies to the facts here.
Posted on 6/9/17 at 11:48 am to DawgsLife
quote:
And yet, based on that the left was calling for Trump to be impeached....
Mountain....or mole hill?
It's still a mole hill regardless of how either side tries to paint it.
It's just a show that in the end does nothing but waste time and money to allow politicians to grandstand.
Just one big magic show.
This post was edited on 6/9/17 at 11:49 am
Posted on 6/9/17 at 12:01 pm to Decatur
quote:
Wait, you really think this?
Wait. How do you not know this?
Comey made notes regarding interactions he had with the President as the Director of the FBI.
Those notes are "owned" by the FBI. This is elementary and is an almost universal practice across all government and private business. Have you never held a job above entry level?
Even my daily planner was company property when I left employment for another job as it could be subpoenaed during a lawsuit about any of my Risk Management investigations.
Posted on 6/9/17 at 12:07 pm to Iosh
quote:
Tell me what verb in this statute covers reading it aloud over the phone. This might cover the act of Comey taking a physical copy of the memos home, if you can make some argument about how "without authority" applies to the FBI Director. It doesn't say shite about leaking their content in a conversation.
are you seriously now arguing that it may not be impermissible to physically hand over a copy of a memo, but reading it over the phone is just fine"
My God man , listen to yourself.
I sincerely hope that you have not procreated. Though I suspect you have , and they are as stupid as you are.
Posted on 6/9/17 at 12:08 pm to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
quote:When you're trying to stretch a statute that covers "records" and not subject matter, yes.
are you seriously now arguing that it may not be impermissible to physically hand over a copy of a memo, but reading it over the phone is just fine"
This post was edited on 6/9/17 at 12:09 pm
Posted on 6/9/17 at 12:09 pm to Decatur
quote:
I just don't see how an embezzlement statute applies to the facts here.
Except in the US a conversion statute does not always involve theft. For you to be talking about conversion statutes yet not know this is exasperating. You want to argue, yet you just throw out arguments that have already been addressed, do not apply, or you use the wrong definition or don't understand the statutes you are talking about.
Here is Wiki talking about Conversion law:
Conversion is a common law tort. A conversion is a voluntary act by one person inconsistent with the ownership rights of another.[1] It is a tort of strict liability in the United Kingdom.[2] Its criminal counterpart is not typically theft but rather criminal conversion, which differs from theft in the lack of intent to deprive the owner of possession of the property.
Note the bold? It does not have to ecessarily be embezzelment as you are trying to insinuate.
Now....read the law, again:
Whoever embezzles, steals, purloins, or knowingly converts to his use or the use of another, or without authority, sells, conveys or disposes of any record, voucher, money, or thing of value of the United States or of any department or agency thereof, or any property made or being made under contract for the United States or any department or agency thereof; or
Whoever receives, conceals, or retains the same with intent to convert it to his use or gain, knowing it to have been embezzled, stolen, purloined or converted—
Notice the bold again?
Converts to his use....which is exactly what Comey did. Now. It has been spelled out for you numerous times and we have shown you plainly where you, and all your arguments are either wrong or immaterial. You keep on arguing, because, as HeyHey has already pointed out, you are nothing more than a leftist who refuses to see what is spelled out plainly to you. It is a waste of time trying to talk to you on this matter, because you will go to another message board and see somebody use an argument, then think "Ah HA! I've got them now!" without checking to see if whoever you stole that argument from knows what they are talking about.
Posted on 6/9/17 at 12:16 pm to Iosh
quote:
When you're trying to stretch a statute that covers "records" and not content, yes.
There is no stretch you fricking idiot and documents are SPECIFICALLY covered, and no one , I mean NO ONE is so stupid that they don't understand that documents being covered means the CONTENT OF THE GOD DAMNED DOCUMENTS are covered.
The statue doesn't say document, it says "records" and here is the definition of "record" which I provided to you before, but will do so again.
What is a record?
Records are defined in various statutes, including the Federal Records Act and the Freedom of Information Act. The definition that follows is from the Federal Records Act that governs agencies' records management responsibilities.
Records include all books, papers, maps, photographs, machine-readable materials, or other documentary materials, regardless of physical form or characteristics, made or received by an agency of the United States Government under Federal law or in connection with the transaction of public business and preserved or appropriate for preservation by that agency or its legitimate successor as evidence of the organization, functions, policies, decisions, procedures, operations, or other activities of the Government or because of the informational value of the data in them (44 U.S.C. 3301).[
Many of the key terms, phrases, and concepts in this statutory definition of records are defined in CFR Part 1222.12.
LINK
you can't even verbally share records you god damned fool.
Posted on 6/9/17 at 12:17 pm to WPBTiger
If Comey is guilty of breaking this law that means 99% of all journalists, editors and news organizations also break this law weekly. 
quote:
Whoever embezzles, steals, purloins, or knowingly converts to his use or the use of another, or without authority, sells, conveys or disposes of any record, voucher, money, or thing of value of the United States or of any department or agency thereof, or any property made or being made under contract for the United States or any department or agency thereof; or
Whoever receives, conceals, or retains the same with intent to convert it to his use or gain, knowing it to have been embezzled, stolen, purloined or converted—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; but if the value of such property in the aggregate, combining amounts from all the counts for which the defendant is convicted in a single case, does not exceed the sum of $1,000, he shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.
Posted on 6/9/17 at 12:18 pm to DawgsLife
quote:God I love this place
You want to argue, yet you just throw out arguments that have already been addressed, do not apply, or you use the wrong definition or don't understand the statutes you are talking about.
Here is Wiki talking about Conversion law:
Posted on 6/9/17 at 12:19 pm to lsu480
Would any of you know what they got David Petraeus for? Limbaugh is saying it is perilously close.
Comey was whining about loyalty. Loyalty is not planning to betray your boss down the line with some fake charge.
Comey was whining about loyalty. Loyalty is not planning to betray your boss down the line with some fake charge.
Posted on 6/9/17 at 12:21 pm to antibarner
They got David Petraeus for leaking classified information. Doesn't apply here which is why everyone is trying to stretch the frick out of recordkeeping and conversion laws.
This post was edited on 6/9/17 at 12:22 pm
Posted on 6/9/17 at 12:23 pm to lsu480
quote:
If Comey is guilty of breaking this law that means 99% of all journalists, editors and news organizations also break this law weekly.
Wrong , because SCOTUS has ruled that it doesn't matter HOW journalists come to have said documents, even if they are classified, they have a right to print them. This is why Trump's question about arresting journalists who print leaks was so stupid.
Posted on 6/9/17 at 12:26 pm to Iosh
quote:
God I love this place
Wiki is not the most fail safe place to get information, but this is heavily annotated. There is no disputing what conversion law is all about.
However, since you are horrified that I chose to give you a link that easily explains what the law is, I will give you a link form a more authoritative source.
Digital Media Law
If you want to argue with what the law says or is set up for, then you need to argue with the legal entities, not me. You want to keep arguing? then argue with the link.
Posted on 6/9/17 at 12:27 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
Wiki is not the most fail safe place to get information, but this is heavily annotated. There is no disputing what conversion law is all about.
However, since you are horrified that I chose to give you a link that easily explains what the law is, I will give you a link form a more authoritative source.
Digital Media Law
If you want to argue with what the law says or is set up for, then you need to argue with the legal entities, not me. You want to keep arguing? then argue with the link.
Irrelevant , I already gave him the Federal Records Act which CLEARLY defines a record and states that it isn't limited to physical records, he is just stupid.
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