- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
The Hawks Model: Gains From Health and Continuity
Posted on 3/23/15 at 12:03 pm
Posted on 3/23/15 at 12:03 pm
McNamara makes the case for minimal changes next season using the Hawks to illustrate how health and continuity can take you from mediocre to top of the East. LINK
While the Atlanta example does give you some hope, the thing that struck me about the article was just how little this team has played together.
A lot of people like to say what this core's ceiling is, but the truth is we have no idea what this team can or can't do. It's easy to imagine the best aspects of each players game being brought out and blended together the way the Hawks have done (InsertCoachingComment), but it's also easy to imagine a bottom 5 defense with top defensive talent and a team that seems to like playing stupid and selfish more often than having a free flowing offense full of ball movement.
While the Atlanta example does give you some hope, the thing that struck me about the article was just how little this team has played together.
quote:
Dell Demps put the ‘Finishing Five’ together two summers ago. Guess how many games they have played since coming together. No, seriously, go ahead and guess……. TWENTY-FIVE! Twenty freaking five. Guess how many minutes? 189. To put that in perspective, the Cleveland games main lineup (Kyrie-JR Smith-Lebron-Love-Mozgov) have played 382 minutes together this year. Oh yeah, and two of those guys were added in January. In two months, the Cavs main lineup has played together twice as much as the Pelicans have over the last two years.
Looking at other core members, Jrue Holiday and Anthony Davis have only been on the court together for 1800 minutes these past two years. Again, to put that in perspective, Lillard and Aldridge played together for nearly 2400 minutes in the 2013-14 season alone. The Jrue-AD-Asik three-man trio, which figures to be our defensive foundation moving forward, has played less than 600 minutes together. I can go on and on with these depressing lineup statistics, but you get the point. This Pelicans team is nearly impossible to evaluate, because we have never really seen this Pelicans team – at least not the one that Dell Demps built. If you actually look at the team Demps built, you will see something very impressive. The starting lineup he put together this year are outscoring opponents by 14.5 points per 100 possessions. The problem? They have only played together for 169 minutes this year, which is 22% of the amount of time Golden State’s starting lineup has spent together this season.
A lot of people like to say what this core's ceiling is, but the truth is we have no idea what this team can or can't do. It's easy to imagine the best aspects of each players game being brought out and blended together the way the Hawks have done (InsertCoachingComment), but it's also easy to imagine a bottom 5 defense with top defensive talent and a team that seems to like playing stupid and selfish more often than having a free flowing offense full of ball movement.
10
Posted on 3/23/15 at 12:13 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
health
Can you really plan for that though?
No one knew Jrue, Cornerstone, Ryno or even AD for that manner, would be this injury prone when each joined the team.
Posted on 3/23/15 at 12:29 pm to Broski
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect Ryno to play better with a full offseason of prep and conditioning or for Gordon to have his knee problems behind him. Holiday is a huge concern going forward.
It's hard to say with AD. I'd venture to guess that he could have played in at least half the games he missed. Will the team be overly cautious with the Franchise Player the rest of his career, or just while he's still a growing boy?
It's hard to say with AD. I'd venture to guess that he could have played in at least half the games he missed. Will the team be overly cautious with the Franchise Player the rest of his career, or just while he's still a growing boy?
Posted on 3/23/15 at 12:35 pm to TigerinATL
Man, it kills me that we haven't seen what this roster, with the additions this season, can really do. Not only because it's going to cost us the playoffs but it leaves us with so many questions going forward. We don't exactly know what we have (or need) and we haven't seen if Monty is the guy or not.
I am convinced, with the right roster tweaks and coach, we have the talent in place.
I'm beginning to really sour on Reke but again, we haven't seen him in the role he was brought in for and we don't know if he can excel under a guy like Monty.
I am convinced, with the right roster tweaks and coach, we have the talent in place.
I'm beginning to really sour on Reke but again, we haven't seen him in the role he was brought in for and we don't know if he can excel under a guy like Monty.
Posted on 3/23/15 at 12:38 pm to TigerinATL
I think they have a really solid 9 man rotation (possibly 10 man if you keep Ajinça) if all are healthy.
Asik
Davis
Pondexter
Gordon
Holiday
Evans
Anderson
Cole
Cunningham
That's not a bad lineup. A superstar in Davis. Good defense with Asik, Davis and Holiday. Good outside shooting with Gordon, Anderson, Holiday, and Pondexter. Penetration from Tyreke, and energy guys in Cole and Cunningham.
Asik
Davis
Pondexter
Gordon
Holiday
Evans
Anderson
Cole
Cunningham
That's not a bad lineup. A superstar in Davis. Good defense with Asik, Davis and Holiday. Good outside shooting with Gordon, Anderson, Holiday, and Pondexter. Penetration from Tyreke, and energy guys in Cole and Cunningham.
Posted on 3/23/15 at 12:46 pm to TigerinATL
While I like Anderson he is really the only main guy I would like to see moved to change up the team.
2015-2016 Roster:
PG: Holiday/Cole
SG: Gordon/Evans
SF: "Prospect From Anderson Trade"/Pondexter/Babbitt
PF: Davis/Ajinca
C: Asik/Withey
The rest of the roster I would fill with prospects with potential.
2015-2016 Roster:
PG: Holiday/Cole
SG: Gordon/Evans
SF: "Prospect From Anderson Trade"/Pondexter/Babbitt
PF: Davis/Ajinca
C: Asik/Withey
The rest of the roster I would fill with prospects with potential.
Posted on 3/23/15 at 12:48 pm to TigerinATL
I said a few weeks ago don't think we should mess with it too much. AD is still a kid and despite all the injuries we have taken a pretty big step forward. See if we can take the next step next year with this core, no reason to blow it all up just yet.
Posted on 3/23/15 at 12:48 pm to Colonel Flagg
I'm not so certain that an Anderson trade (without including a pick) would bring back someone better than Pondexter.
Posted on 3/23/15 at 12:52 pm to TigerinATL
for me it's hard to draw comparisons with the 2 regarding the coaches. Bud going into year 2 isn't exactly "continuity" as it would be for Monty going into his 6th season.
In fact I'd argue that the Hawk's turnaround is because of a coaching change.
In fact I'd argue that the Hawk's turnaround is because of a coaching change.
Posted on 3/23/15 at 12:54 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
for me it's hard to draw comparisons with the 2 regarding the coaches. Bud going into year 2 isn't exactly "continuity" as it would be for Monty going into his 6th season.
In fact I'd argue that the Hawk's turnaround is because of a coaching change.
I think that may be the biggest needed change, the roster makeup is fine, IMO.
Posted on 3/23/15 at 12:57 pm to Colonel Flagg
I actually think Babbitt would be destined for the ryno role at backup PF.
Wonder what will happen with dante because he is a nice backup 3/4(though I am aware of his offensive limitations).
Wonder what will happen with dante because he is a nice backup 3/4(though I am aware of his offensive limitations).
Posted on 3/23/15 at 1:01 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
In fact I'd argue that the Hawk's turnaround is because of a coaching change.
I think we've seen enough of Monty. Time for a change in that department.
If they only made minimal roster changes I'd be happy with that as well. I think the 2 biggest concern's are Jrue's health and Tyreke's fit on this team.
If you were to move Tyreke your completely depending on Jrue as your PG moving forward and right now that's probably not a good bet.
I'd be willing to give this roster another shot with a different coach but I don't think Monty will ever be able to make these pieces work.
Posted on 3/23/15 at 1:08 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
health and continuity
Games played over last four years (current):
Eric Gordon: 9, 42, 64, (49)
Ryan Anderson: 61, 81, 22, (52)
Jrue Holiday: 65, 78, 34, (37)
Tyreke Evans: 63, 65, 72, (67)
Anthony Davis: 64, 67, (56)
...if I were a Pelicans fan and the organization tried to sell me on that core group and "just getting healthy"...I would be furious.
Posted on 3/23/15 at 1:11 pm to brgfather129
quote:
if I were a Pelicans fan and the organization tried to sell me on that core group and "just getting healthy"...I would be furious.
Posted on 3/23/15 at 1:12 pm to Epic Cajun
Excellent contribution.
Posted on 3/23/15 at 1:18 pm to brgfather129
If their injuries were chronic, I'd see your point, but Tyreke, Davis, and Anderson have no chronic injuries. Gordon hasn't had a knee injury this season. The Holiday injury is concerning, but we really don't know if it'll last into next season or not.
Posted on 3/23/15 at 1:24 pm to Epic Cajun
Whether or not the injuries are "chronic" is irrelevant to the discussion when you are talking about a pattern being established over multiple years.
Posted on 3/23/15 at 1:28 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
McNamara makes the case for minimal changes next season using the Hawks to illustrate how health and continuity can take you from mediocre to top of the East.
2 Problems:
Not in the East
The Hawks actually developed an identity. The system was there, they just had no players. I loved the way they played last season even when Elton Brand and Mike freaking Scott was the frontcourt. I would have traded Monty for Bud straight up last year. The Pelicans have no identity other than Davis is awesome.
The better comp is GSW. The Pelicans (finally) have some decent pieces, but not much of a coach to put them together.
This post was edited on 3/23/15 at 1:29 pm
Posted on 3/23/15 at 1:34 pm to brgfather129
quote:
Whether or not the injuries are "chronic" is irrelevant to the discussion when you are talking about a pattern being established over multiple years.
You see a pattern, I see random injuries. Chronic would indicate that they aren't random. Gordon's shoulder injury has nothing to do with his previous knee injuries. Ryno's knee sprain has nothing to do with his neck injury last season.
Posted on 3/23/15 at 1:36 pm to corndeaux
quote:
I would have traded Monty for Bud straight up last year.
I'm not sure you're going out on a limb here
Page 1 of 3
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News