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re: AD Ranks #1 in Bill Simmons Annual Trade Value Column
Posted on 3/17/15 at 10:29 pm to TheSexecutioner
Posted on 3/17/15 at 10:29 pm to TheSexecutioner
Part of being the best player is being on the court no? Wouldn't Durant be in the conversation were he healthy? Yes.
1
Posted on 3/17/15 at 10:33 pm to Boomshockalocka
quote:
Part of being the best player is being on the court no? Wouldn't Durant be in the conversation were he healthy? Yes.
So Lebron and Westbrook are worse basketball players because they got hurt?
You are arguing MVP. Nobody else is. You just know that's the only thing you can win. So you jump into a thread about who is the best basketball player talking about who has had the best season because you know that Harden did well with injuries this year.
There are plenty of threads talking about MVP. This is not one of them. Its talking about the #1 trade asset. That is undebatably Davis. One person made a comment(not even sure if serious) that Davis was the best player. Most people on this board do not agree with that but it certainly doesn't have anything to do with Harden like you are desperately steering it towards.
This post was edited on 3/17/15 at 10:35 pm
Posted on 3/17/15 at 10:39 pm to TheSexecutioner
no no no, I only jumped in the thread bc of the poster who claimed Davis was the best player in the league. Anything else was just a tangent off of posts that followed the post about Davis being the best. basically I wouldn't have posted at all if it wasn't for that comment.
Posted on 3/17/15 at 10:57 pm to Boomshockalocka
quote:
no no no, I only jumped in the thread bc of the poster who claimed Davis was the best player in the league. Anything else was just a tangent off of posts that followed the post about Davis being the best. basically I wouldn't have posted at all if it wasn't for that comment.
But you read this board all the time. You know damn well people don't claim AD is the best player in the league with any kind of frequency. You just wanted to down on him again.
And your BS cherry picked stats dogging on AD are getting old. You are so intellectually dishonest. You run on and on about things never happening before such as the best player in the NBA not leading his team to the playoffs. a)playoffs are irrelevant. record is all that matters. b)its not necessarily unprecedented, KG is certainly in the discussion for best player in the early 2000s and his team only won 44 games when he led the NBA in win shares, but who cares..... Even ignoring those, it's a dishonest point because correlation =/= causation
Seems to me there is a perfectly good reason why AD would be one of the rare exceptions of a top player who's team only has moderate success. He got good so fast, young, and unexpectedly. Guys who were foreseen to be elite 2 years ahead of time don't usually play on bad teams. The team starts pulling in veterans, and making moves to make them a contender. Typically, its easier because they are a decent way into their career. Nobody would acquire Lebron or a comparable player with the intention of fielding a team with Tyreke, Asik, Pondexter, and EG with a bunch of D leaguers off the bench as the planned roster in 2 years. He wouldn't agree to go there even if they did. So theres a strong correlation between star players and good supporting casts.
Also since he's so young, he is less far removed from the draft that got them there. Using logic, it stands to reason that older star players will have better teams than super young ones because a) they have built the team around them b) theres a good chance they actually selected their team in free agency and c) the young player is less far removed from the horrible team(because the team had to be horrible the year before he entered the league to land the top pick)
So it's ridiculous to compare him to other star players in different situations. He is unique because he got so good so fast and unexpectedly.
Posted on 3/17/15 at 11:22 pm to Boomshockalocka
Let me lay it out like this.
The facts:
Pelicans are not an elite team
AD through 55 games has a top 3 PER of all time(very close to MJ/Wilt
Claims:
No top-in-the-NBA player's team has only been a few games over .500
No player who had an incredible season PER(playing significant minutes) was not a top-in-the-NBA player
Which claim seems more immune to exceptions?
The Evidence:
KG and Kobe Bryant in their primes were both great players on bad teams. In 2003 Kobe's team was REALLY bad which by your logic would mean he could elevate his play to single handily provide 12 more wins and he still would't be considered the best in NBA. Both players were able to win championships as the best player on their teams, so they are by no means empty stat guys who can't take better teams to success.
On the other hand, the only player with a top 30 PER for a season who could even by the furthest stretch of the imagination not be considered a top player was TMAC in 2003 with the 16th best season, and a PER far lower than Davis. Lebron, MJ, and Wilt, (widely considered the 3 GOAT), hold all of the top 10 spots.
So why do you keep lying about how incredible players are never on mediocre teams when its actually happened twice in the modern basketball era with KG and Kobe that players were on below average teams?
And why, if you are such a faithful follower of significant correlations between great players and other things are you ignoring PER, something that correlates INCREDIBLY well with the quality of players?
Just seems to me like you are using team stats to prove individual player quality which is not only illogical but also all of the evidence points towards the correlation not being nearly as strong as using individual metrics.
The facts:
Pelicans are not an elite team
AD through 55 games has a top 3 PER of all time(very close to MJ/Wilt
Claims:
No top-in-the-NBA player's team has only been a few games over .500
No player who had an incredible season PER(playing significant minutes) was not a top-in-the-NBA player
Which claim seems more immune to exceptions?
The Evidence:
KG and Kobe Bryant in their primes were both great players on bad teams. In 2003 Kobe's team was REALLY bad which by your logic would mean he could elevate his play to single handily provide 12 more wins and he still would't be considered the best in NBA. Both players were able to win championships as the best player on their teams, so they are by no means empty stat guys who can't take better teams to success.
On the other hand, the only player with a top 30 PER for a season who could even by the furthest stretch of the imagination not be considered a top player was TMAC in 2003 with the 16th best season, and a PER far lower than Davis. Lebron, MJ, and Wilt, (widely considered the 3 GOAT), hold all of the top 10 spots.
So why do you keep lying about how incredible players are never on mediocre teams when its actually happened twice in the modern basketball era with KG and Kobe that players were on below average teams?
And why, if you are such a faithful follower of significant correlations between great players and other things are you ignoring PER, something that correlates INCREDIBLY well with the quality of players?
Just seems to me like you are using team stats to prove individual player quality which is not only illogical but also all of the evidence points towards the correlation not being nearly as strong as using individual metrics.
This post was edited on 3/17/15 at 11:24 pm
Posted on 3/17/15 at 11:48 pm to Boomshockalocka
AD leads the league in Win Shares / 48, too. Yeah, he hasn't played a full season, but neither has Westbrook and he's in every MVP conversation. AD also has the second lowest usage rate out of any top 10 players based on PER, so it's not like that's the cause for his rating.
Media is all over the fact that Westbrook has been playing without Durant. AD never had a Durant to play with in the first place, and on top of that, his roster is depleted too.
Media is all over the fact that Westbrook has been playing without Durant. AD never had a Durant to play with in the first place, and on top of that, his roster is depleted too.
Posted on 3/18/15 at 12:14 am to htran90
AD has a ws of 11.4
Hardeb has a ws of 13.2
Pelicans have 37 wins, he accounts for 30.81% of it.
Rockets have 45 wins, he accounts for 29.33% of it.
Know what that means? Houston has a better supporting cast.
Hardeb has a ws of 13.2
Pelicans have 37 wins, he accounts for 30.81% of it.
Rockets have 45 wins, he accounts for 29.33% of it.
Know what that means? Houston has a better supporting cast.
Posted on 3/18/15 at 1:43 pm to Boomshockalocka
quote:
basically I wouldn't have posted at all if it wasn't for that comment.
I highly doubt that.
Posted on 3/18/15 at 1:48 pm to LSUAce007
Is Boom sulking somewhere?
Posted on 3/18/15 at 1:51 pm to VOR
quote:I don't know but I got to say thesexecutioner came in and dropped the hammer
Is Boom sulking somewhere?
Posted on 3/18/15 at 1:55 pm to TigerinATL
We really need to bring in a Pop disciple and run a Spurs offense in which AD plays Timmy's role.
Oh, wait.
Oh, wait.
Posted on 3/18/15 at 2:21 pm to Fearthehat0307
quote:
I don't know but I got to say thesexecutioner came in and dropped the hammer
+1
Well done sir.
Posted on 3/18/15 at 2:28 pm to VOR
Seeing the boom lowered on Boom never gets old
Kind of like how this never gets old:
Kind of like how this never gets old:
This post was edited on 3/18/15 at 2:30 pm
Posted on 3/18/15 at 2:33 pm to pleading the fifth
quote:
Kind of like how this never gets old:
Or this:
Posted on 3/18/15 at 2:34 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
For a guy who proclaims himself an advanced stats guru, he sure seems to discredit their use when they demonstrate AD's greatness.
Posted on 3/18/15 at 2:36 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
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