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Massive ESPN article on analytics - Pelicans segment
Posted on 2/24/15 at 8:46 am
Posted on 2/24/15 at 8:46 am
First of all, this is a huge piece and I'd recommend everyone checking it out.
LINK
The Pelicans segment featured more of the same things we've been hearing for a while in regards to trading draft picks for proven commodities. Yada yada yada, we've beaten that horse to fricking death around here.
I did find this paragraph interesting, though:
This tells me that we are failing at two crucial aspects of the game, and for me, it somewhat confirms the "eyeball test" this board has been giving Monty for a while now.
There's no reason we should be this bad at protecting the rim with Asik and Davis on our roster. There's no reason we should be playing that much isolation basketball.
LINK
The Pelicans segment featured more of the same things we've been hearing for a while in regards to trading draft picks for proven commodities. Yada yada yada, we've beaten that horse to fricking death around here.
I did find this paragraph interesting, though:
quote:
Williams' offense relies heavily on relatively inefficient isolation plays. Per Synergy Sports, only the Cleveland Cavaliers have finished more of their plays out of an isolation. Meanwhile, Williams has struggled to craft a defensive scheme that prevents high-percentage looks. Despite the presence of big men Asik and Davis, the Pelicans have allowed far more shot attempts at the rim than any other team in the NBA.
This tells me that we are failing at two crucial aspects of the game, and for me, it somewhat confirms the "eyeball test" this board has been giving Monty for a while now.
There's no reason we should be this bad at protecting the rim with Asik and Davis on our roster. There's no reason we should be playing that much isolation basketball.
5
Posted on 2/24/15 at 8:59 am to NawlinsTiger9
So we're second only to a team that has the greatest iso player in NBA history? Jesus Monty.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 9:04 am to Hester Carries
Cole may help this problem, we have had no true point guard for the last month, offensively you can get by with tyreke playing point but defensively he can't stay with some of the smaller , quicker point guards in the league, which is why we have been getting lit up by opponents points guards.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 9:06 am to NawlinsTiger9
quote:
Despite the presence of big men Asik and Davis, the Pelicans have allowed far more shot attempts at the rim than any other team in the NBA.
This post was edited on 2/24/15 at 9:07 am
Posted on 2/24/15 at 9:17 am to ShamelessPel
That's not all that surprising though. Asik was top 10 in rim protection to start the year before Gordon got injured. Gordon and Holiday were doing a good job of keeping guards out of the lane. When Gordon went down we saw a lot of teams have success with whoever Holiday wasn't guarding. Now that Holiday has gone down, even Gordon coming back hasn't helped much. Asik went from top 10 to start the year to 28th when you filter the low minutes/low attempts guys. LINK
This board went from hating Okafor to thinking he was an All Star snub when the team added Ariza to the mix and the perimeter defense improved. Cole/Pondexter/Cunningham should help, but our problems in the paint start out on the perimeter.
This board went from hating Okafor to thinking he was an All Star snub when the team added Ariza to the mix and the perimeter defense improved. Cole/Pondexter/Cunningham should help, but our problems in the paint start out on the perimeter.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 9:19 am to TigerinATL
A healthy Jrue, Gordon, Reke, AD, Asik line-up would be killing it right now.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 9:20 am to NawlinsTiger9
quote:
Williams' offense relies heavily on relatively inefficient isolation plays. Per Synergy Sports, only the Cleveland Cavaliers have finished more of their plays out of an isolation. Meanwhile, Williams has struggled to craft a defensive scheme that prevents high-percentage looks. Despite the presence of big men Asik and Davis, the Pelicans have allowed far more shot attempts at the rim than any other team in the NBA.
These three sentences pretty accurately sum up Monty's stint as a Head Coach here.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 10:26 am to NawlinsTiger9
quote:
Despite the presence of big men Asik and Davis, the Pelicans have allowed far more shot attempts at the rim than any other team in the NBA.
I really hate the way this sentence is written. It somehow wants to blame Davis/Asik for the amount of shots attempted at the rim when mainly that falls on terrible guard play being unable to prevent penetration into the paint.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 10:27 am to Aced
quote:
I really hate the way this sentence is written. It somehow wants to blame Davis/Asik for the amount of shots attempted at the rim when mainly that falls on terrible guard play being unable to prevent penetration into the paint.
I don't think anyone reading that sentence blames those two, especially in the context of the article.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 11:33 am to NawlinsTiger9
The blurb quoted below is also worth pointing out.
I'm just reposting from the Demps thread
I'm just reposting from the Demps thread
quote:
quote:quote:
Still, it's challenging to find examples of how analytics have penetrated New Orleans' decision-making, and sources confirm that GM Dell Demps and coach Monty Williams are not engaged in incorporating advanced stats.
Data isn't the be all, end all. The questions you ask and how you interpret the stats are more important than anything else.
But these are tools that can help (sometimes confirming a belief, others reversing). Not blending all the available information together at your disposal is willful ignorance.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 3:55 pm to corndeaux
Demps and Williams respond:
LINK
quote:
''It is completely inaccurate to suggest that the Pelicans are skeptics and do not value analytic data,'' Demps said. ''We study and analyze the data using advanced metrics before we make any decisions.
''Just because we do not publicly broadcast how we use analytics, I do feel it is important to let the Pelicans fans know that the use of analytics is an important part of our decision-making process.''
...Pelicans coach Monty Williams said he's always used analytics, but considers it primarily as just stats.
''I try to use real stats and add my feel to it to the numbers that I'm getting,'' Williams said. ''Like case in point last month (Monday's game against the Toronto), they made a lot of contested shots but it will go down as a bad defensive possession. I don't think that's the case.
''But we use numbers all the time, we just call them stats. I don't discount any of that stuff. You have to take all of it in the pot and make it relevant to your team and the situation.''
LINK
Posted on 2/24/15 at 4:07 pm to TigerinATL
These two just do not appear to be on the same page at all.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 4:30 pm to ShamelessPel
quote:
These two just do not appear to be on the same page at all.
Seriously, there answers sound fundamentally different.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 4:39 pm to whoknows1390
Monty thinks it's still the 90's his wadrobe and coaching style.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 4:45 pm to whoknows1390
Their answers were literally the same thing.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 5:00 pm to TigerinATL
Yeah. I almost put a disclaimer on my post about this being one sentence in a massive ESPN article.
I do wonder though about their definitions of analytics and stats. Most of the advanced stats are just box score stats (or a combo of box score stats) on a per possession, per 36, or % basis.
The tracking data, to me, can be fundamentally different. And teams have so much more data available that we just don't see.
SP, sarcasm?
It was very interesting to see Monty say that about the Raptors game, yet he made a point to talk about how Al Jefferson (33 PTS on 30 FGA and 6 FTA) killed the Pels this summer.
I do wonder though about their definitions of analytics and stats. Most of the advanced stats are just box score stats (or a combo of box score stats) on a per possession, per 36, or % basis.
The tracking data, to me, can be fundamentally different. And teams have so much more data available that we just don't see.
SP, sarcasm?
It was very interesting to see Monty say that about the Raptors game, yet he made a point to talk about how Al Jefferson (33 PTS on 30 FGA and 6 FTA) killed the Pels this summer.
This post was edited on 2/24/15 at 5:01 pm
Posted on 2/24/15 at 6:09 pm to corndeaux
99% of the problem seems to be we can't get healthy, Monty doesn't call timeouts effectively, and Monty was at times putting ridiculous lineups on the floor together.
The third thing has drastically changed with the improvement in talent on the bench this season. I don't really know how we will lift the injury curse.
It would be nice for Monty to atleast do a better job of calling timeouts and making adjustments in a more timely manner. Most coaches seem to be quick to call timeouts and adjust while it always seems to me Monty waits too long. I feel it would be different if the team had more veteran players. Thats why it is always frustrating to hear Wesley bitch about an issue for 5-10 minutes before Monty seems to try and address it.
The third thing has drastically changed with the improvement in talent on the bench this season. I don't really know how we will lift the injury curse.
It would be nice for Monty to atleast do a better job of calling timeouts and making adjustments in a more timely manner. Most coaches seem to be quick to call timeouts and adjust while it always seems to me Monty waits too long. I feel it would be different if the team had more veteran players. Thats why it is always frustrating to hear Wesley bitch about an issue for 5-10 minutes before Monty seems to try and address it.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 6:46 pm to corndeaux
quote:
SP, sarcasm?
No. Dell was basically saying of course I use advanced metrics when making decisions. Monty talks about "real stats". Whatever that's supposed to mean. I'm assuming box scores. My only point was that these 2 are on different pages when it comes to almost everything. There isn't really autonomy between the 2 responses.
ETA: one is valuing metrics in his response. One is downplaying them.
This post was edited on 2/24/15 at 6:49 pm
Posted on 2/24/15 at 7:24 pm to Hester Carries
quote:
So we're second only to a team that has the greatest iso player in NBA history?
LeBron James is not the greatest iso player in NBA history
Posted on 2/24/15 at 7:33 pm to ShamelessPel
"But we use numbers all the time, we just call them stats. I don't discount any of that stuff."
- Monty Williams, 2015
- Monty Williams, 2015
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