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re: Massive ESPN article on analytics - Pelicans segment
Posted on 2/24/15 at 7:33 pm to Colonel Flagg
Posted on 2/24/15 at 7:33 pm to Colonel Flagg
quote:
I don't really know how we will lift the injury curse.
Biometrics. Sixers article by Pablo Torre a week or so ago hit in this. It's more than a little creepy, but they literally monitor everything their players do on the court in practice and a good bit of what they do off.
quote:
ShamelessPel
Gotcha.
1
Posted on 2/24/15 at 8:28 pm to corndeaux
Dell Demps -
Not so subtle shots fired at the self promoters out there.
Maybe Dell should get a twitter account and into a few bitching matches with ex players to prove he's not drawing up deals on a typewriter
There's also this:
Journal of Sports Analytics
And this article that just came out last week about Loomis' use of analytics with the the Saints which would obviously extend to the Pelicans:
Not so subtle shots fired at the self promoters out there.
Maybe Dell should get a twitter account and into a few bitching matches with ex players to prove he's not drawing up deals on a typewriter
There's also this:
Journal of Sports Analytics
And this article that just came out last week about Loomis' use of analytics with the the Saints which would obviously extend to the Pelicans:
quote:
What the Saints are looking to find is the cornerback with no interceptions but has a high number of pass breakups. No problem. A couple clicks of a button and all that information is readily available. If someone on the list stands out, he will be “green flagged” and given a deeper look.
“Let’s say the guy has no interceptions but 25 pass breakups — which is a lot of a college corners,” New Orleans General Manager Mickey Loomis said. “This guy is getting his hands on a lot of balls. Now, he didn’t catch many of them. Why not? So you say, ‘Hey, man, we getter go look at this guy’s targets.’ ”
Within a few more clicks of a button on the team’s technology system called I.C.E, which stands for Interactive, Collaboration and Evaluation and was first introduced in 2010, video of those targets can be found. Within minutes, the Saints can determine why the cornerback wasn’t catching the ball and if he’s a prospect worth considering more deeply. LINK
This post was edited on 2/24/15 at 8:49 pm
Posted on 2/24/15 at 8:33 pm to eyeran
Gotta be a slap in the face to the Pels director of analytics. 
Oh you use analytics, well we surely can't tell!!
I reckon that he's a pretty young guy who went to HS here in New Orleans.
Oh you use analytics, well we surely can't tell!!
I reckon that he's a pretty young guy who went to HS here in New Orleans.
This post was edited on 2/24/15 at 8:39 pm
Posted on 2/24/15 at 8:41 pm to Boomshockalocka
quote:
Gotta be a slap in the face to the Pels director of analytics.
Oh you use analytics, well we surely can't tell!!
I reckon that he's a pretty young guy who went to HS here in New Orleans.
quote:
Somak Sarkar, Basketball Operations Strategic Analyst – Sarkar graduated from Rice in 2013 and interned with the Houston Rockets during the 2012-13 NBA season in their basketball operations group.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 8:44 pm to eyeran
quote:
Somak Sarkar, Basketball Operations Strategic Analyst – Sarkar graduated from Rice in 2013 and interned with the Houston Rockets during the 2012-13 NBA season in their basketball operations group.
Somak = Boom
It all makes sense now.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 8:49 pm to eyeran
Shane Kupperman is the guy I was talking about.
Shane Kupperman, Director of Basketball Operations – Kupperman has worked for the team for four seasons prior to this one, moving up in the ranks through his analytics efforts. He is a 2007 graduate of the University of Indiana and received his graduate degree at the University of Southern Cal – also working with their basketball team for two years – before joining the New Orleans Hornets’ organization. Currently, he focuses on salary cap management, roster management, and player evaluation (Memphis Grizzlies VP of Basketball Operations John Hollinger mentioned at the SSAC that he views salary cap management as the most important thing that he does). Kupperman was recently featured in Forbes’ “30 under 30? list within the sports industry, a very impressive honor. He is also a part of the 26-member Editorial Board for the Journal of Sports Analytics, joining Demps as the second Pelicans employee with an affiliation to the journal.
Somak Sarkar, Basketball Operations Strategic Analyst – Sarkar graduated from Rice in 2013 and interned with the Houston Rockets during the 2012-13 NBA season in their basketball operations group. Though young, an internship with Morey’s group is at least one clear indication that he knows what he’s doing.
LINK
Shane Kupperman, Director of Basketball Operations – Kupperman has worked for the team for four seasons prior to this one, moving up in the ranks through his analytics efforts. He is a 2007 graduate of the University of Indiana and received his graduate degree at the University of Southern Cal – also working with their basketball team for two years – before joining the New Orleans Hornets’ organization. Currently, he focuses on salary cap management, roster management, and player evaluation (Memphis Grizzlies VP of Basketball Operations John Hollinger mentioned at the SSAC that he views salary cap management as the most important thing that he does). Kupperman was recently featured in Forbes’ “30 under 30? list within the sports industry, a very impressive honor. He is also a part of the 26-member Editorial Board for the Journal of Sports Analytics, joining Demps as the second Pelicans employee with an affiliation to the journal.
Somak Sarkar, Basketball Operations Strategic Analyst – Sarkar graduated from Rice in 2013 and interned with the Houston Rockets during the 2012-13 NBA season in their basketball operations group. Though young, an internship with Morey’s group is at least one clear indication that he knows what he’s doing.
LINK
This post was edited on 2/24/15 at 8:51 pm
Posted on 2/24/15 at 9:03 pm to Boomshockalocka
Yes. I don't know what point you're trying to make.
My point was that the organization isn't living in the dark ages like so many seem to enjoy suggesting.
Dell Demps is far from the first person in the league to suggest that the rest of the league isn't living in some other dimension when it comes to advanced metrics, certain people are just great self promoters. The Sloan Conference is ground zero for that crew
My point was that the organization isn't living in the dark ages like so many seem to enjoy suggesting.
Dell Demps is far from the first person in the league to suggest that the rest of the league isn't living in some other dimension when it comes to advanced metrics, certain people are just great self promoters. The Sloan Conference is ground zero for that crew
This post was edited on 2/24/15 at 9:05 pm
Posted on 2/24/15 at 9:20 pm to eyeran
no point other than what I mentioned before. It seems like a slap in the face for the guys who work in analytics for the pels to have their contemporaries say that their organization doesn't rely on analytics.
I'm sure that's why Demps felt compelled to issue a statement.
I'm sure that's why Demps felt compelled to issue a statement.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 9:37 pm to Boomshockalocka
quote:Ah ok, gotcha.
no point other than what I mentioned before. It seems like a slap in the face for the guys who work in analytics for the pels to have their contemporaries say that their organization doesn't rely on analytics.
I'm sure that's why Demps felt compelled to issue a statement.
Seems the Pelicans portion of that article was much more of a negative critique on the Pelicans' moves(which espn enjoys) more than an assessment of whether or not they're interested in analytics. You're right about Dell feeling compelled to issue a statement though, which in itself should dispel espn's idea of the organization being skeptics. An actual skeptic won't give two shits about that article and definitely wouldn't feel the need to try to prove them wrong.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 9:38 pm to Boomshockalocka
I must have missed the part where ESPN was considered a contemporary.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 9:45 pm to ShamelessPel
Kevin Pelton ESPN NBA Insider Kevin Pelton was the coauthor of the "Pro Basketball Prospectus" series. From 2010 to 2012, he was an analytics consultant for the Indiana Pacers. isn't a contemporary of others who work in advanced analytics for other nba teams?
Posted on 2/24/15 at 10:40 pm to Boomshockalocka
quote:
contemporaries
Plural
And no, he's not a contemporary. He's one guy working at ESPN making opinions. A contemporary would be a poll of anonymous GMs or their underlings. Hell, one GM or underling. He was a consultant for a few years now working at again, ESPN.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 11:16 pm to Boomshockalocka
quote:
Kevin Pelton ESPN NBA Insider Kevin Pelton was the coauthor of the "Pro Basketball Prospectus" series. From 2010 to 2012, he was an analytics consultant for the Indiana Pacers. isn't a contemporary of others who work in advanced analytics for other nba teams?
was
Posted on 2/25/15 at 5:54 am to eyeran
quote:
critique on the Pelicans' moves more than an assessment of whether or not they're interested in analytics.
It's not a stretch to look at the Pelicans moves and how they play throughout the Monty/Demps tenure and conclude they aren't really analytically driven in their decisions.
quote:
An actual skeptic won't give two shits about that article and definitely wouldn't feel the need to try to prove them wrong
It's a one sentence blurb in a massive article from a multibillion dollar news/entertainment conglomerate; a grain of salt is needed.
It also paints the franchise as behind the curve with the rest of the NBA. That the team would respond this way is not surprising in the least.
From Ben Alamar, former OKC and Cavs analytics consultant.
quote:
But soon a new challenge emerged: Starting in the 2013-14 season, SportVU cameras were installed in every NBA arena. The amount of data available to teams suddenly grew from a pond to an ocean. Think about it: Those cameras capture the coordinates of 10 players plus the ball 25 times every second. That's a vast amount of data. As a result, the race to unlock the secrets of the SportVU requires a much higher level of skill than what was needed when I first started working for the Sonics. In the beginning, anyone with advanced spreadsheet skills could probably add value to a front office. Now, though, deep statistical programming skills, along with advanced computer science knowledge, are needed to create value. These are skills for which companies such as Google and Facebook pay quite handsomely.
But teams have been slow to recognize the sandbox they're now playing in. The analytics community worked hard to be accepted and learn the language of the NBA, but maybe we did too good a job fitting in. Entry-level analysts are viewed not much differently from entry-level video assistants: lucky to be in the NBA and worth a salary not much higher than $35,000. Teams are used to competing with high school and college athletic departments for staff, not with McKinsey and Bain. Realistically, aspiring NBA analysts must be willing to take at least a 50 percent pay cut from what they could earn elsewhere.
quote:
Some teams are starting to figure it out -- some even are raising salaries -- and departments are growing in number. And thanks to new streams of data, there are whole new languages to learn -- the biggest advantage will go to teams that want to learn them
Like I said earlier, everyone uses advanved stats. Per 36, %, etc. They're just modified box score numbers.
The camera data is a Pandora 's Box. That's what is interesting. How willing is the team to go out and spend $$ to discover an edge?There are teams pouring $ into exploring this mountain of information. You can call it self promotion. Just seems like a wise investment to me.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 7:19 am to corndeaux
quote:
But teams have been slow to recognize the sandbox they're now playing in. The analytics community worked hard to be accepted and learn the language of the NBA, but maybe we did too good a job fitting in. Entry-level analysts are viewed not much differently from entry-level video assistants: lucky to be in the NBA and worth a salary not much higher than $35,000. Teams are used to competing with high school and college athletic departments for staff, not with McKinsey and Bain. Realistically, aspiring NBA analysts must be willing to take at least a 50 percent pay cut from what they could earn elsewhere.
I have a friend that works in the industry. He wouldn't accept a job with the Pels because the salary they are offering is laughable compared to what he makes now. He doesn't work for a team in any of the 3 major sports. That kind of tells you what you need to know as far.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 8:00 am to corndeaux
quote:
How willing is the team to go out and spend $$ to discover an edge?There are teams pouring $ into exploring this mountain of information. You can call it self promotion. Just seems like a wise investment to me.
I think it's a very important question. The high tech medical prevention specialists you posted an article about recently seem like the type of people that could have stopped Holiday's injury before it happened. How many millions are being wasted on the bench because of injury? Seems like it'd be worth spending a few to keep those investments productive. With this team I'd be exploring the high tech healthcare angle before I went down the Morey Ball path.
That being said, TBW posted an article last week highlighting how the team has headed in a Morey Ball direction. Not sure if that's analytics driven or just natural growth that comes from not having Jason Smith be your most reliable offensive weapon. LINK
Posted on 2/25/15 at 9:27 am to TigerinATL
I saw that TBW piece. They've trended more towards the Green Triangle this year, which is a welcome sign. I don't think they are Philistines. I have no doubt they are doing what they believe is best. And I have no doubt they know more than I do.
It's not that they have to be Morey. There's no one answer to winning basketball or one true path that statistics dictate every one must follow.
Really, I just want to see a plan, a Pelicans Way. The Sixers are cultish with their devotion to data, the Bulls have been wildly successful using "grit" to find capable players from the lower rungs of the draft. Whatever it is, define your vision for basketball success. Then exhaust every avenue possible to achieve that success.
Maybe I'm missing it but, from my cheap seat, I haven't seen that vision in 4+ years. That, to me, is a problem.
It's not that they have to be Morey. There's no one answer to winning basketball or one true path that statistics dictate every one must follow.
Really, I just want to see a plan, a Pelicans Way. The Sixers are cultish with their devotion to data, the Bulls have been wildly successful using "grit" to find capable players from the lower rungs of the draft. Whatever it is, define your vision for basketball success. Then exhaust every avenue possible to achieve that success.
Maybe I'm missing it but, from my cheap seat, I haven't seen that vision in 4+ years. That, to me, is a problem.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 9:28 am to whoknows1390
quote:
have a friend that works in the industry. He wouldn't accept a job with the Pels because the salary they are offering is laughable compared to what he makes now.
I hope that will change with the new tv money coming in.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 9:37 am to corndeaux
I think one issue is they've been guessing at what AD was going to be. AD's ascension this year certainly clarifies the picture a good bit, so hopefully we'll see a clearer vision going forward. Unfortunately, now that you have a clear picture of AD, you lack flexibility to make moves, especially if Holiday's injury is serious long term.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 9:51 am to corndeaux
quote:
I hope that will change with the new tv money coming in.
i have a feeling it has nothing to do with money and more with them not desiring to make it a key part of the organization quite yet.
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