re: Who was the better sniper: Hathcock or Kyle

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Kyle also had more opportunity to kill in a fairly open urban desert vs Vietnam jungles.

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This is why I vote for Hathcock, he had a tougher environment to deal with than Kyle. Much respect for both, however.

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Simo Hayha (sp?) still probably the best ever. Hathcock probably the best American.

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Not all of Simo's was from long range either. Often he would jump out from his hiding place and unload on a group of unsuspecting victim's before disappearing into the wilderness. And his optics were primitive.

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Can't compare the 2. Different generations. I hate how people bring technology into the argument. Do you want Kyle to say "frick it, I want people to think I'm as good as Hathcock", and leave all his shite at base and just go hunting taliban with an old deer rifle?

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I agree 100%

Same thing with sports. You can't fault or tout somebody just because they lived at a certain time. All you can do is judge them based on that time period because that is all we will ever know. We will never know what Hathcock would have done with today's tech over in Iraq or Afghanistan. And we also will never know what Kyle would have done with older rifles in Vietnam. All you can do is compare them against their competition at the time

Hathcock is more revered because of his courage, but Chuck Malwhinney has more confirmed/unconfirmed kills. Malwhinney had 16 kills(all head shots) with 16 shots. Both in Vietnam, but Carlos did crap that required a whole different level of courage. 3 days crawling in after a NVA officer, alone AND getting the kill....damn.
Chuck Malwhinney

Bob Lee Swagger

He actually passed out at one and when they took his shooting jacket off they saw that all his graphs had ripped and he never even said anything.

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White Feather and it isnt close.

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This, and as Green said, it isn't even close.

i cant fathom the amount of confidence and focus and set of balls it takes to crawl over 1200 yards, over 3 days surrounded by enemy patrols that get so close to you that you could give them a handshake. Make a perfect shot and then successfully gtfo without the enemy ever knowing your location. 'Murica, frick yea

not to mention he volunteered for that mission a couple days before he was coming home, which he knew about

and he volunteered his last mission, knowing he was going home in a couple of days. he said he took the mission because he knew he was the best man to do the job and he didnt want to risk any other guys getting killed.

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i cant fathom the amount of confidence and focus and set of balls it takes to crawl over 1200 yards, over 3 days surrounded by enemy patrols that get so close to you that you could give them a handshake. Make a perfect shot and then successfully gtfo without the enemy ever knowing your location. 'Murica, frick yea

not to mention he volunteered for that mission a couple days before he was coming home, which he knew about

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Not only this but he crawled out of there after he took the shoot. The base came alive and soilders were sent out in all directions to find him. I would have wanted to get up and run so bad. And I would have not made it.