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Started By
Message
The Hobbit Trilogy
Posted on 1/15/15 at 5:19 pm
Posted on 1/15/15 at 5:19 pm
tl;dr: The Hobbit sucked
I'm assuming I've already missed out on the discussions here about The Hobbit trilogy. If this new thread is old/annoying news then I apologize. But I wanted to get a general idea of what everyone thinks of the hobbit now that its done, even though we haven't gotten to the extended edition of the last one yet.
I was highly disappointed with the trilogy. It wasn't as bad as the star wars prequels (yes I'm making the reference) but I would say I'm just as disappointed with the hobbit as I was with the star wars prequels.
After seeing all 3, I think the first one is the best (that's not saying much). I'm not sure if the third is worse, better, or equal to the second one. In some ways I think it was probably better (maybe). In a lot of ways it was worse, or at least just downright awful.
I have 2 major issues with the hobbit, which ultimately destroyed the trilogy:
The first is the expansion of the story. The problem isn't the fact that they expanded the story. The problem is what they chose to expand. The right way would have been to focus on the characters. You have 13 dwarves in the hobbit who are very underdeveloped. 3 long arse movies is the perfect opportunity to really flesh out their characters so the audience can get to know and like them as they travel the journey with them. But we hardly know any of them by the end of film 3. But Tauriel and Legolas were sure to get their screen time.
Instead of expanding characters, PJ decided to film the time with overly long, elaborate and over the top action sequences that looked like something out of a children's cartoon or video game. What happened to the realistic gritty battles from LOTR?
So now I go onto to my second major issue: PJ's love for the new tech. While filming in 3D, 48fps, on digital might be cool, it should not have been done for the hobbit. The filmmakers claimed to want to create the same Middle Earth. But everything they did was just not that. The new technology meant that PJ had to abandoned his time honored techniques, of which he was so proud when making LOTR. This means no miniatures, an over saturation of CGI, color, and an overly crisp and bright picture that actually makes everything look more fake. Additionally he decided to CGI the frick out of characters he would have put in prosthetics or costume in the original trilogy: Orcs, Goblins, Azog, Bolg, soldiers in the various armies... AND FOR frick'S SAKE DAIN IRONFOOT! I almost lost it when I saw him on screen.
In the end there's no pay off or resolution to the elements PJ spent so much time dragging out and building up. Radaghast was a big disappointment, as I thought he would pull out some cool moves at Dol Guldur. The entire Dol Guldor story line was done within 10 minutes in a really underwhelming confrontation. Beorn has 15 seconds of screen time in the third film so what the hell was even the point of putting him in there? Oh and what happened to the Arkenstone? last we saw of it, Bard had it in his hands. Yet no mention of it after that... the heart of Erebor which was built up over 3 films. After Thorin dies, there's no funeral, and no discussion of who becomes king under the mountain, and no discussion of what happened to all that gold everyone was so worried about.
Well, that's all for now. I really hope someone takes the time to read this, and more importantly I hope someone takes time to share their opinion. I'm really wanting to see others feel the same way as me. I just don't know if I can post on theonering.net message boards anymore. It's been overrun by delusional PJ apologists.
I'm assuming I've already missed out on the discussions here about The Hobbit trilogy. If this new thread is old/annoying news then I apologize. But I wanted to get a general idea of what everyone thinks of the hobbit now that its done, even though we haven't gotten to the extended edition of the last one yet.
I was highly disappointed with the trilogy. It wasn't as bad as the star wars prequels (yes I'm making the reference) but I would say I'm just as disappointed with the hobbit as I was with the star wars prequels.
After seeing all 3, I think the first one is the best (that's not saying much). I'm not sure if the third is worse, better, or equal to the second one. In some ways I think it was probably better (maybe). In a lot of ways it was worse, or at least just downright awful.
I have 2 major issues with the hobbit, which ultimately destroyed the trilogy:
The first is the expansion of the story. The problem isn't the fact that they expanded the story. The problem is what they chose to expand. The right way would have been to focus on the characters. You have 13 dwarves in the hobbit who are very underdeveloped. 3 long arse movies is the perfect opportunity to really flesh out their characters so the audience can get to know and like them as they travel the journey with them. But we hardly know any of them by the end of film 3. But Tauriel and Legolas were sure to get their screen time.
Instead of expanding characters, PJ decided to film the time with overly long, elaborate and over the top action sequences that looked like something out of a children's cartoon or video game. What happened to the realistic gritty battles from LOTR?
So now I go onto to my second major issue: PJ's love for the new tech. While filming in 3D, 48fps, on digital might be cool, it should not have been done for the hobbit. The filmmakers claimed to want to create the same Middle Earth. But everything they did was just not that. The new technology meant that PJ had to abandoned his time honored techniques, of which he was so proud when making LOTR. This means no miniatures, an over saturation of CGI, color, and an overly crisp and bright picture that actually makes everything look more fake. Additionally he decided to CGI the frick out of characters he would have put in prosthetics or costume in the original trilogy: Orcs, Goblins, Azog, Bolg, soldiers in the various armies... AND FOR frick'S SAKE DAIN IRONFOOT! I almost lost it when I saw him on screen.
In the end there's no pay off or resolution to the elements PJ spent so much time dragging out and building up. Radaghast was a big disappointment, as I thought he would pull out some cool moves at Dol Guldur. The entire Dol Guldor story line was done within 10 minutes in a really underwhelming confrontation. Beorn has 15 seconds of screen time in the third film so what the hell was even the point of putting him in there? Oh and what happened to the Arkenstone? last we saw of it, Bard had it in his hands. Yet no mention of it after that... the heart of Erebor which was built up over 3 films. After Thorin dies, there's no funeral, and no discussion of who becomes king under the mountain, and no discussion of what happened to all that gold everyone was so worried about.
Well, that's all for now. I really hope someone takes the time to read this, and more importantly I hope someone takes time to share their opinion. I'm really wanting to see others feel the same way as me. I just don't know if I can post on theonering.net message boards anymore. It's been overrun by delusional PJ apologists.
12
Posted on 1/15/15 at 5:29 pm to red_giraffe
Although you make some awful good points, I was highly entertained by all three films. I have no complaints..
Ignorance...bliss...etc etc
Ignorance...bliss...etc etc
Posted on 1/15/15 at 5:37 pm to TaxmanMSU
I do have to agree with that for the most part. They were overall at least entertaining. Its just that, in my opinion, they could have been so much more.
Posted on 1/15/15 at 5:44 pm to red_giraffe
I also agree with the 1st one being the best, which is the minority opinion on this board I think. I felt that it captured "the spirit of the book the most". I know that's a vague and poetic term but I don't know how else to describe it. I know there is no action at all but the first 40 minutes of that movie in Bilbo's house I felt was one of the best stretches in any of the 3 movies, perhaps because it generally stuck to the book pretty well there.
I also have no issue with PJ diverting from the book, especially where it makes sense when referencing other Tolkien books (like Legolas being in Mirkwood for example)
I really didn't care much for the 3rd one but I did enjoy the arrival of the Dwarvish army and the Dain was great. I had looked forward to that scene since I read it in the book for the first time years and years ago. Disappointed in the battle as a whole though. I found it confusing and hard to tell where everyone was (armies I mean, not necessarily specific characters)
I also wish PJ had kept using the Dwarvish theme music that was often played in the first one. I thought that was a really good one.
Smaug-Bilbo scene was great.
I also have no issue with PJ diverting from the book, especially where it makes sense when referencing other Tolkien books (like Legolas being in Mirkwood for example)
I really didn't care much for the 3rd one but I did enjoy the arrival of the Dwarvish army and the Dain was great. I had looked forward to that scene since I read it in the book for the first time years and years ago. Disappointed in the battle as a whole though. I found it confusing and hard to tell where everyone was (armies I mean, not necessarily specific characters)
I also wish PJ had kept using the Dwarvish theme music that was often played in the first one. I thought that was a really good one.
Smaug-Bilbo scene was great.
Posted on 1/15/15 at 5:46 pm to red_giraffe
I liked it a lot. Much better than TLOTR trilogy.
Posted on 1/15/15 at 6:03 pm to red_giraffe
I loved each Hobbit movie immensely - saw each one at least twice in the theater and multiple times on DVD. I am a fanboy of the world, though, and would be happy with literally anything that was made in Middle Earth. I even really enjoyed that fan made movie about Aragorn's father from about 10 years ago.
I understand the urge to want to measure this against Lord of the Rings. I think if LOTR had never happened, these movies would be much better received by fans and critics, though the trilogy will still end up grossing over $3 billion at the box office.
The Hobbit was always meant to have a much lighter tone than LOTR. I understood this, but many did not. The dinner scene in the first Hobbit movie is one of my favorite scenes of the trilogy.
I also enjoyed the Star Wars prequels, though, which many did not due entirely, from my point of view, about how they felt about the original trilogy. I though episode 3 was the best out of any of the 6 movies.
I also loved Superman Returns, which many hated, partly because they felt it was not a true Superman movie given the limited action.
I also loved the third Godfather movie even though it clearly was not as good as the first two.
I don't go into movies with preconceived ideas of what it should be based on previous movies ion the series. In fact, if I loved the previous movies, I am far more inclined to love the current movie because of how much I enjoy the universe, mythology, what have you. I could have watched the Hobbits just mill about the Shire for 3 hours and been perfectly content. I guess I just get something different out of these movies than others. Better for me because then I can thoroughly enjoy these epics.
I understand the urge to want to measure this against Lord of the Rings. I think if LOTR had never happened, these movies would be much better received by fans and critics, though the trilogy will still end up grossing over $3 billion at the box office.
The Hobbit was always meant to have a much lighter tone than LOTR. I understood this, but many did not. The dinner scene in the first Hobbit movie is one of my favorite scenes of the trilogy.
I also enjoyed the Star Wars prequels, though, which many did not due entirely, from my point of view, about how they felt about the original trilogy. I though episode 3 was the best out of any of the 6 movies.
I also loved Superman Returns, which many hated, partly because they felt it was not a true Superman movie given the limited action.
I also loved the third Godfather movie even though it clearly was not as good as the first two.
I don't go into movies with preconceived ideas of what it should be based on previous movies ion the series. In fact, if I loved the previous movies, I am far more inclined to love the current movie because of how much I enjoy the universe, mythology, what have you. I could have watched the Hobbits just mill about the Shire for 3 hours and been perfectly content. I guess I just get something different out of these movies than others. Better for me because then I can thoroughly enjoy these epics.
This post was edited on 1/15/15 at 6:04 pm
Posted on 1/15/15 at 8:43 pm to LeonPhelps
I liked them all but thought the 3rd was the best
The first was my least favorite. Too childish for me.
The first was my least favorite. Too childish for me.
Posted on 1/15/15 at 8:45 pm to LeonPhelps
I'm actually watching the first one now, and as soon as they left the Shire I was like "Dammit, here comes some stupid action I don't want to see."
Give me Tom Bombadil, the Shire, Beorn, and Barrow Wights. I love the simpler parts of the Universe. I also hate the way the Elves are portrayed. They're stuck up, way, way too regal, sanctimonious and dull.
Elves are supposed to be joyous and mystical, and full of life. I can barely watch them in the movies.
Give me Tom Bombadil, the Shire, Beorn, and Barrow Wights. I love the simpler parts of the Universe. I also hate the way the Elves are portrayed. They're stuck up, way, way too regal, sanctimonious and dull.
Elves are supposed to be joyous and mystical, and full of life. I can barely watch them in the movies.
Posted on 1/15/15 at 9:57 pm to theGarnetWay
quote:
I also agree with the 1st one being the best, which is the minority opinion on this board I think.
I agree.
quote:
I know there is no action at all but the first 40 minutes of that movie in Bilbo's house I felt was one of the best stretches in any of the 3 movies, perhaps because it generally stuck to the book pretty well there.
I haven't read the books but I also thought the beginning of the first movie was incredibly entertaining.
Overall, I thought it would have worked better as two movies instead of three.
Posted on 1/15/15 at 10:19 pm to FT
quote:
I also hate the way the Elves are portrayed. They're stuck up, way, way too regal, sanctimonious and dull.
Elves are supposed to be joyous and mystical, and full of life. I can barely watch them in the movies.
Really? I thought the elves were spot on in the movies. They were viewed almost as godly figures. Cause they kinda were. They were the first race to walk Middle Earth. The first Children of Illuvatar. Immortal, fair, wise. The only race granted privilege to live with the Vala and Maia in Valinor. Not saying that the Ainur didn't love the other races of Middle Earth. But the elves were special.
This post was edited on 1/15/15 at 10:22 pm
Posted on 1/15/15 at 10:20 pm to LeonPhelps
You have the right idea here in regards to the hobbit. What no one understands is the hobbit is not LOTR. Read the books, they're two different things. Same world, but written in a different light. The movies are depicted in that way. LOTR is realistic and gritty, while the Hobbit is bright and fun. Some scenes really captured that. The dinner in the Shire is incredibly well-done in that bright fun way.
Not all of the Hobbit was great, but I think it was good overall, entertaining and true to the "spirit of the book." They won't be classics like LOTR, but they're good in their own right
Not all of the Hobbit was great, but I think it was good overall, entertaining and true to the "spirit of the book." They won't be classics like LOTR, but they're good in their own right
Posted on 1/15/15 at 10:37 pm to red_giraffe
quote:
Oh and what happened to the Arkenstone? last we saw of it, Bard had it in his hands. Yet no mention of it after that... the heart of Erebor which was built up over 3 films. After Thorin dies, there's no funeral, and no discussion of who becomes king under the mountain, and no discussion of what happened to all that gold everyone was so worried about.
Well, Dain Ironfoot took over as King under the mountain. The arkenstone was placed in the tomb with Thorin. But I know that from the books. You're right, it wasn't covered in the movie. That was a little upsetting. Maybe the extended edition will show us this. I read somewhere that this one was edited down a lot.
ETA: The fate of some of the other dwarves were actually covered in LOTR. Remember the tomb in Moria?
quote:
over saturation of CGI
I understand this complaint, but I thought they did a pretty excellent job with it.
quote:
You have 13 dwarves in the hobbit who are very underdeveloped.
To be fair, they weren't all that developed in the book either.
This post was edited on 1/15/15 at 10:41 pm
Posted on 1/15/15 at 10:53 pm to PillageUrVillage
quote:
Well, Dain Ironfoot took over as King under the mountain. The arkenstone was placed in the tomb with Thorin. But I know that from the books. You're right, it wasn't covered in the movie. That was a little upsetting. Maybe the extended edition will show us this. I read somewhere that this one was edited down a lot.
If I'm not mistaken the 3rd film as about a half hour shorter than the other 2 and I think the last half hour could have been used more wisely.
In the book Balin and Gandalf come to visit Bilbo some years later and they inform him of such developments at Erebor since their adventure. Could have been an easy and quick way to let non-readers know what happened and tie off that loose end (plus it'd be accurate to the book)
Posted on 1/15/15 at 11:07 pm to PillageUrVillage
quote:gross no
Really? I thought the elves were spot on in the movies.
quote:They most definitely were, but they were way too formal and boring in the movies. Elves are jubilant and fun, as well as wise and beautiful.
They were viewed almost as godly figures. Cause they kinda were.
Biggest let down of the films, IMO.
Posted on 1/16/15 at 12:16 am to red_giraffe
I was disappointed but they had their moments. The Smaug-Bilbo dialog in the second movie was an awesome scene.
Posted on 1/16/15 at 6:25 am to red_giraffe
There were parts of all 3 that I thought were excellent but overall I was very disappointed.
Several times during the movies I found myself waiting for a scene to end.
Maybe if they would have cut it to 2 instead of 3 books it would have been better but only a few times in the entire series did I feel connected to the story.
LOTR I was all in most of the time but even that series suffered from some scenes that were just plain dumb which shows the Jackson signature at times.
Several times during the movies I found myself waiting for a scene to end.
Maybe if they would have cut it to 2 instead of 3 books it would have been better but only a few times in the entire series did I feel connected to the story.
LOTR I was all in most of the time but even that series suffered from some scenes that were just plain dumb which shows the Jackson signature at times.
Posted on 1/16/15 at 10:37 am to red_giraffe
quote:
I have 2 major issues with the hobbit, which ultimately destroyed the trilogy:
These are the same two arguments I've made all along as well. Almost word for word.
There were people who were going to love these movies no matter what they were though. It could have been three 3-hour long movies about a dragon giving birth as long as PJ directed and you called it a lotr prequel.
I guess I need to stop arguing with people about them because it's like I'm taking crazy pills when nobody agrees about how crappy the cgi is and that not having much of it in lotr was part of the reason it was so great. O well.
quote:
After seeing all 3, I think the first one is the best (that's not saying much). I'm not sure if the third is worse, better, or equal to the second one. In some ways I think it was probably better (maybe). In a lot of ways it was worse, or at least just downright awful.
Still having a hard time figuring out this sentence but I just went ahead and skipped the third one.
I was at least going to give PJ props that he did my favorite part of the book justice. Bilbo's conversation with Smaug. I was in the theatre thinking "wow, not bad, thus is actually a little creepy like I was hoping it would be." But of course he goes and screws it up by finishing the scene like your on a 3D roller coaster ride at Disneyland. I hate that guy.
Posted on 1/16/15 at 10:40 am to PillageUrVillage
quote:
Really? I thought the elves were spot on in the movies. They were viewed almost as godly figures. Cause they kinda were. They were the first race to walk Middle Earth. The first Children of Illuvatar. Immortal, fair, wise. The only race granted privilege to live with the Vala and Maia in Valinor. Not saying that the Ainur didn't love the other races of Middle Earth. But the elves were special.
He couldn't even get the color of their hair right. Juse sayin.
**fixes glasses**
*goes back to pushing shopping carts at goodwill**
Posted on 1/16/15 at 10:42 am to constant cough
quote:
liked it a lot. Much better than TLOTR trilogy.
I've seen you drop that line a couple times in these threads now.
Time to explain. I'm calling you out. Racing for pinks.
Posted on 1/16/15 at 12:14 pm to Mac
quote:
I know there is no action at all but the first 40 minutes of that movie in Bilbo's house I felt was one of the best stretches in any of the 3 movies, perhaps because it generally stuck to the book pretty well there.
That is so funny because my 12 year old kid started reading The Hobbit (I urged him to read it) and he quit reading after about 50 pages. The reason he quit? "This book is boring. When are they going to leave that stupid party and get on with the book?"
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