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Started By
Message
re: Gruden's comment on MNF about offensive talent at LSU
Posted on 12/24/14 at 8:47 pm to BigBrod81
Posted on 12/24/14 at 8:47 pm to BigBrod81
quote:
Does the majority of the Mississippi St. & entire Auburn game ring a bell?
you mean the Mississippi St game where we waited until the 3rd quarter to really open up and came storming back and the Auburn game where we threw Harris out there on the road against one of our toughest rivels or the Wisconson game where we opened up and came back to win.
2
Posted on 12/24/14 at 8:54 pm to chilge1
quote:
Not with a true sophomore QB in his first year as starter throwing to true freshman WRs.
He is a sophomore QB. Not like he is a true freshman. We throw to freshman WR's because we chose to. No reason Diarse shouldn't or couldn't be starting over Quinn. Durel has some experience as does Dickson and Gordon. NOt to mention Hillard and Magee. Plenty of experienced talent to throw to. Pretty much all colleges do more with less on offense than we do.
Posted on 12/24/14 at 8:59 pm to boxcar willie
young player and/or inexperinced players starting is the nature of college football. If what we ran this year is what we have to run until they gain experience because our offense is so complicated maybe we should be running something else. Not to mention the difficulty of recruiting a highly talented, big, strong armed, immobile, pro style QB that everyone says we need to run our offense. We are in an area that produces duel threat QB's. Maybe we should go with an NFL style offense that utilizes that. Like the west coast offense or something along those lines.
Posted on 12/24/14 at 9:00 pm to boxcar willie
Wisc. Jennings 21 passes
Miss St. Jennings 26 passes; Harris 9 passes
Auburn Jennings 10 passes; Harris 14 passes
MSST and Wisconsin were statistically 2 of Jennings 4 worst games against Big Five competition…
I think the coaches knew pretty early on that we did not possess a legitimate passing attack. They developed a strategy after the Auburn game that resulted in some efficient offensive outings, but our OL got absolutely dominated by Bama and Arky and our QB play couldn't compensate.
Miss St. Jennings 26 passes; Harris 9 passes
Auburn Jennings 10 passes; Harris 14 passes
MSST and Wisconsin were statistically 2 of Jennings 4 worst games against Big Five competition…
I think the coaches knew pretty early on that we did not possess a legitimate passing attack. They developed a strategy after the Auburn game that resulted in some efficient offensive outings, but our OL got absolutely dominated by Bama and Arky and our QB play couldn't compensate.
Posted on 12/24/14 at 9:01 pm to nm1230
quote:
figured you would back yourself into a corner and say. " see ya bruh" .
I didnt back into shite.
The last person to truly innovate in cfb was Rich Rod at WVU with the Read Option.
quote:
What criteria are you using to say those programs were better than LSU in 2004
Florida- had 6 sec titles and. National titles since 1991
Florida St - finished in the top 5 for 14 straight years
Tenn-had back to back sec titles, and played in another one and had a BCS title
Oklahoma- 3 conference titles and bcs title
USC- since 1993 6 conference titles and 2 national titles
Do i need to go on?
Lsu was a program on the rise, but werent a top 5 program in 2005.
quote:
Or are you just talking out of your arse to discredit and shite on the program pre-Miles.
Im not discrediting the Saban era. Im just pointing out how saban get praised for the 2001 sec title game ( 3 losses with nfl talent all over the field Rohan Davey, Josh Reed, Michael Clayton, Ryan Clark, Devery Henderson, Marquise Hill, Bradie james, Chad lavalais, marcus spears,Labrandon Toefield, and Corey webster) and miles gets blasted for 2013 ( 3losses)
quote:
Why are you diminishing what the program accomplished?
Im not. Its called reality. Lsu wasnt a top 5 program in 2005.
Posted on 12/24/14 at 9:03 pm to boxcar willie
quote:
Maybe we should go with an NFL style offense that utilizes that.
Holy shite.
quote:
Like the west coast offense or something along those lines.
Did you just say recruit a Dual threat qb and run the west coast offense?
Wow
Posted on 12/24/14 at 9:10 pm to boxcar willie
quote:
He is a sophomore QB. Not like he is a true freshman
How did Maty Mauk do this year? Completion % was comparable, albeit better than Jennings, ypa was comparable, albeit worse, sacks were the same, more TDs, more TOs. Patrick Towles? Better Completion %, everything else was about the same…..
How many receptions did Diarse have last year? or Dickson? Or Gordon? Or Hilliard?
quote:
Pretty much all colleges do more with less on offense than we do.
Less On Offense
I just wish this metric broke it up based on each side of the ball than an entire team...
Posted on 12/24/14 at 9:14 pm to boxcar willie
quote:
If what we ran this year is what we have to run until they gain experience because our offense is so complicated maybe we should be running something else
Would you rather run the complicated offense that when executed appropriate is unstoppable, or the simplistic, gimmick offense that can be stifled by an effective defense?
quote:
We are in an area that produces duel threat QB's. Maybe we should go with an NFL style offense that utilizes that.
There's a quote somewhere from Stephen Rivers where he indicates his reasoning for transferring is because LSU's system requires a more mobile QB in the line of Harris, Franks, Patterson, etc
Posted on 12/24/14 at 9:15 pm to chilge1
quote:
but our OL got absolutely dominated by Bama
like that wasn't predictable a head of time. Given they knew what play was coming at them we did OK I guess. Just think if we had more in our arsenal that game would have been different. Same with Arkansas.
Posted on 12/24/14 at 9:15 pm to boxcar willie
quote:
you mean the Mississippi St game where we waited until the 3rd quarter to really open up and came storming back and the Auburn game where we threw Harris out there on the road against one of our toughest rivels or the Wisconson game where we opened up and came back to win.
Goodness gracious dude. Learn how to correctly format a sentence.
First of all, Mullen emptied his bench late that game. At that point, the game became nothing more then a glorified 7 on 7 scrimmage. The crowd was gone as well so I'm not sure what your point is there. The truth is, there were multiple formations & personnel groupings used early in that game. The players failed to execute offensively. As cliché as that sounds it's the truth.
Same thing happened against Auburn when so many fans cried to have Brandon Harris as the starter. Cam even used play signs on the sidelines to help Harris with the play calls. Again, the players didn't execute. I'm not sure what your point is. The coaches cannot go on the field a make the plays for their players.
Are you really serious about Wisconsin? So now positive halftime adjustments are being criticized?
Posted on 12/24/14 at 9:22 pm to JaxTiger10
quote:
Did you just say recruit a Dual threat qb and run the west coast offense? Wow
something along the lines of Seattle or San Francisco. Mobile QB's who throw a lot of underneath routes to RB's, TE's and WR's and still use a power run game.
Posted on 12/24/14 at 9:30 pm to BigBrod81
quote:
Are you really serious about Wisconsin? So now positive halftime adjustments are being criticized?
no they are to be complimented. Where are you getting that? Miles leads in come from behind victories usually by opening up the offense. Could just do it earlier and not have to come back.
quote:
At that point, the game became nothing more then a glorified 7 on 7 scrimmage
we came with in a hail mary pass of coming back from a huge hole in that game.
Posted on 12/24/14 at 9:33 pm to chilge1
quote:
There's a quote somewhere from Stephen Rivers where he indicates his reasoning for transferring is because LSU's system requires a more mobile QB in the line of Harris, Franks, Patterson, etc
well I'm not against it. Duel threat QB's add an extra dimision. Just your bud and some of the other posters on here are always saying we are trying to shove a square peg in a round hole with our QB's into a so called 'pro style' offense
Posted on 12/24/14 at 9:36 pm to boxcar willie
quote:
we came with in a hail mary pass of coming back from a huge hole in that game.
That had more to do with Mullen being an idiot than miles opening it up. You dont pull your starters against a team you haven't beaten in 19 years
Posted on 12/24/14 at 9:49 pm to boxcar willie
To be honest, I don't think anyone knows what "Cam's offense" looks like. Year 1 he had a Sr. QB and didn't want to change playbooks too much and Year 2 he had a So. QB that couldn't hit a screen or a slant.
Posted on 12/24/14 at 9:52 pm to boxcar willie
quote:
You can even open up your offense and do a lot of things that we don't do that other schools do with a 'pro style'.
You are not going to have success "opening up" a pro style offense with an inexperienced quarterback. You need to get that through your head. What needs to happen, is the staff has to find a way to keep QB prospects from transferring. That way there is a replacement for an upperclassmen that graduates or goes pro, that has been on campus already for a few years. Practice & film sessions are more key to a quarterback's development than playing time. If a QB can master it in those areas, it will translate onto the field.
quote:
Maybe we should go with an NFL style offense that utilizes that. Like the west coast offense or something along those lines.
I hate to ask but are you retarded? Cam's offense revolves around the power run game & getting the ball downfield vertically in the passing game. Secondly, do you realize how complex the short passing game of the West Coast offense is?
Here's a good breakdown of Cam Cameron's offense which is a concept of Don Coryell's vertical passing offense.
Part I
Part II
quote:
WEST COAST OFFENSE OVERVIEW
Short pass plays replace the running game to control the ball.
Bill Walsh originated with the Cincinatti Bengals and San Francisco 49ers.
Long process for QB to pick-up all the reads and adjustments.
Release all five receivers into the pattern.
QB has progression read up to five receivers.
Take what the defensive gives you.
Make the defense adjust to you.
Replacing the run game with a short passing game in the SEC isn't going to work on the field & it will cost you the ability to recruit one of the state's biggest assets which is running backs. Secondly, you want quarterbacks to learn an even more difficult offensive system then Cam Cameron's.
West Coast Offense Breakdown
This post was edited on 12/24/14 at 10:09 pm
Posted on 12/24/14 at 9:56 pm to chilge1
quote:
Would you rather run the complicated offense that when executed appropriate is unstoppable, or the simplistic, gimmick offense that can be stifled by an effective defense?
neither, we should just run something in the realm of what other high school, college, and pro teams run. Then if we want to narrow it down, we could run a modern pro style that utilizes the concepts that that entails. Personally I would like to see a power running pro style that uses some motion, shotgun formations, some power run out of the pistol, misdirection plays, underneath routes to the backs and TE's, some middle pass routes and over the top. Called QB runs. Keep it simple but give the defense something to think about and take what the D is giving . It can be simple or add wrinkles as experience grows. Giving the D something to think about takes some of the pressure off an inexperienced QB where execution of the offense doesn't have to be perfect for it to work like with what we do now.
.
Posted on 12/24/14 at 10:00 pm to BigBrod81
quote:
hate to ask but are you retarded? Cam's offense revolves around the power run game & getting the ball downfield vertically in the passing game. Secondly, do you realize how complex the short passing game of the West Coast offense is?
Having a football discussion with that guy is like arguing with a child. The other day we were talking how Kiffen likes to use an offset I formation, and he call me dumb because there is no such thing as an offset I formation because the fb and rbs werent lined up vertically. It was frustrating to say the least
Posted on 12/24/14 at 10:03 pm to boxcar willie
quote:
college, and pro teams run.
We do
quote:
we could run a modern pro style
Thats been happening for a long time.
quote:
Personally I would like to see a power running pro style that uses some motion, shotgun formations, some power run out of the pistol, misdirection plays, underneath routes to the backs and TE's, some middle pass routes and over the top. Called QB runs.
Thats what we do.
Posted on 12/24/14 at 10:04 pm to boxcar willie
quote:
Duel threat QB's add an extra dimision.
Physical talent is fine. There's nothing wrong looking at size, arm strength & mobility but there is more to playing the quarterback position than physical attributes.
The mental aspect has been & will always be the most important part of playing the position. Quarterbacks, when comfortable in reading defenses, are a nightmare to defend in the pocket. If you add the mobility measurable & the ability to ad-lib outside of the pocket then you basically have an unstoppable quarterback.
I believe this is Cam's ultimate goal with Brandon Harris but it takes time. In the long run, we fans will be rewarded with something special if some can just have patience.
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