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Started By
Message
HTPC (home theater PC) suggestions? OP updated
Posted on 12/10/14 at 1:22 pm
Posted on 12/10/14 at 1:22 pm
I've had my BIL's HP hooked up to my new Vizio for the past week, and I'm wanting to get my own small profile HTPC for movie downloads. I want something under $300 that will play HD movies and 1080p quality video. Something with a blu-ray drive would be great too. What are my options? Should I get one built? Is what I want possible at that price point?
Eta:
Just got the Lenovo set up and already watching Christmas vacation via XBMC. Really happy with the setup. Would recommend. Everything is streamlined now and the cpu is TINY. It's smaller than my router. And fast. I'll post a picture.
Pardon the lighting. The actual unit is hidden behind the soundbar. Like nothing is there.
Eta:
Just got the Lenovo set up and already watching Christmas vacation via XBMC. Really happy with the setup. Would recommend. Everything is streamlined now and the cpu is TINY. It's smaller than my router. And fast. I'll post a picture.
Pardon the lighting. The actual unit is hidden behind the soundbar. Like nothing is there.
This post was edited on 12/17/14 at 9:24 pm
4
Posted on 12/10/14 at 4:51 pm to beHop
Posted on 12/10/14 at 5:44 pm to beHop
I'm considering something like this:
LINK
In this case Which comes with a PSU but would require a different wall plug. It would be near-silent (no PSU fan, cpu fan only on as needed).
I would avoid a blu Ray in an HTPC. I dropped $80 on a drive before realising that, not only is software to read BD not included with the vast majority of drives, but the software required to play most commercial disks starts at around $50. There are ways around it that work at times, but it's inconvenient. At least make sure you read up on the options before pulling the trigger. I use PowerDVD and it's fine. It was expensive, though, and would put you out of budget.
Speaking of budget, this machine will outperform a lot of similar-sized stuff that uses laptop/mobile internals (like the Intel NUC) at about the same price, but this is a No OS build right here. There are lots of HTPC OS out there that are decent, but you'd likely be happiest with Windows 7 or 8 with Media Center which is, unfortunately, very expensive, pushing this list really to the peak of your budget, and likely past it.
In terms of low-power, quiet, small footprints though, I don't think you can squeeze very much more power out of a machine than this. You could drop down to 1333mhz ram and probably still not notice a difference to save a few dollars, but the value seems to be with 1600mhz ram because the prices are so close. You could go to 2x2 DIMM instead of 1x4, but future upgrades will be cheaper in the 1x4 (2x2 will require both to be upgraded. You could go and change timings and pair a 2 and non-2gb stick, but for practical purposes, I would go with a 1x4gb configuration. Someone smarter may disagree).
You could also look at the SSd and save some money there. Is 240gb too big for your needs? The 120 gb cheapos are in the $50ish range ($30 savings). You could even go with an HDD if this will be storing all your media files. Ideally, you've got media somewhere else (and online) and could downsize to a 120gb drive and save a few dollars.
I may catch flack for the ECS board. I just bought one of these and will be installing it in the next 2 weeks or so. It seems as if ECS has stepped up its game fairly recently and has started making decent-er boards than in the past. The next "tier" of boards has all your reliable h81 offerings (biostar, asrock, msi) for about $55-60 (one listed is $45 after shipping). Of note, the mobo does come with some form of Powerdvd. I believe it's a trial. I'll know in about 2 weeks. If it's a full (but limited, bluray capable) version, its value for your purposes tremendously increases, and adding a BD drive becomes useful. Unfortunately, most slim slot-load BD players are pricey, and I would reconsider the case. I also left a DVD player out of the pricing above. The ones that fit this case are in the $40ish range usually and play very nice with Media Center. Since this was optional, I left it out for the sake of price vs features, in this case- future expansion to include dvd or bd if it becomes feasible.
Controlling this is another issue entirely that will depend on your OS, but if can be as cheap or expensive as you want it to be. I have a handheld presentation-style Rf remote with trackpad and keyboard that was about $20. You could opt for no password and a unified remote server that launches on startup. There are a number of ways to do that.
There are also plenty of cases with bigger/better PSUs and more hard drive bays, but I tried to stick with small footprint and silent for your use. As above, no optical is maybe a weak point of this build, but I think of it from a "future expandability" standpoint as opposed to a "look what it's missing" one. You may have a different outlook. If that's the case, tweaking to a less expensive case with an equally small footprint is easy. Adding the drive is also easy. This case will always be on the "expensive" side of drives given its slot-loading requirement. Most laptop slot-loading drives should fit it just fine, though.
Happy to tweak any given part or take criticism from anyone. But I'm actually strongly considering this for myself. Again, add $40 for the case and decide if you want to pay for windows or run a free os, but $250 is about the cheapest I can get a silent, small footprint itx build with no OS.
eta: a couple of considerations of options that exist that are basically just out of your price range but worth knowing exist:
most of the itx boards have alternative-to-sata considerations (namely msata or mpcie) slots on the motherboard that would allow you to have an SSd for the mobo that doesn't occupy the 2.5" bay, allowing you to invest in a decent sized HDD if you don't have NAS/Home Server/some form of storage for media files. They're something I'm not too familiar with in terms of pricing and quality, but they're mostly small (~32-64gb) drives designed for OS and key apps with you putting all your media on an HDD that's also internal.
Likewise, several have slots that take 802.11 (wi fi) cards, which an AC + Bluetooth card goes for somewhere in the realm of $30. Some also have this chip already on-board.
And, lastly lastly, itx cases are kind of where "cool" happens. They come in very small form factors, there's also "thin mini itx" cases that look similar to a standard DVD player (allow typical "tray loading" (as opposed to "slot loading") blu Ray drives). They come from tiny to basically your standard a/v receiver-sized (which has more room for standard SATA SSd/HDD drives- cheaper than the on-board stuff mentioned earlier), but the trade off is, of course, size. If Fanless isn't appealing because you can get relatively-silent PSU in standard ATX format and feel/read a case has good airflow, there's no reason you couldn't find a slightly bigger case that has much more power to spare.
Wesena, specifically, but there are likely others, make affordable (if you go to their website and buy "slightly imperfect" models) cases that have the option to add an IR receiver as part of the case, allowing a Windows Media Center remote the ability to not need an external receiver. There are other control options, so this may be a push. Likewise, a $10-30 usb receiver + remote may be as nice to you as one that's internal.
LINK
In this case Which comes with a PSU but would require a different wall plug. It would be near-silent (no PSU fan, cpu fan only on as needed).
I would avoid a blu Ray in an HTPC. I dropped $80 on a drive before realising that, not only is software to read BD not included with the vast majority of drives, but the software required to play most commercial disks starts at around $50. There are ways around it that work at times, but it's inconvenient. At least make sure you read up on the options before pulling the trigger. I use PowerDVD and it's fine. It was expensive, though, and would put you out of budget.
Speaking of budget, this machine will outperform a lot of similar-sized stuff that uses laptop/mobile internals (like the Intel NUC) at about the same price, but this is a No OS build right here. There are lots of HTPC OS out there that are decent, but you'd likely be happiest with Windows 7 or 8 with Media Center which is, unfortunately, very expensive, pushing this list really to the peak of your budget, and likely past it.
In terms of low-power, quiet, small footprints though, I don't think you can squeeze very much more power out of a machine than this. You could drop down to 1333mhz ram and probably still not notice a difference to save a few dollars, but the value seems to be with 1600mhz ram because the prices are so close. You could go to 2x2 DIMM instead of 1x4, but future upgrades will be cheaper in the 1x4 (2x2 will require both to be upgraded. You could go and change timings and pair a 2 and non-2gb stick, but for practical purposes, I would go with a 1x4gb configuration. Someone smarter may disagree).
You could also look at the SSd and save some money there. Is 240gb too big for your needs? The 120 gb cheapos are in the $50ish range ($30 savings). You could even go with an HDD if this will be storing all your media files. Ideally, you've got media somewhere else (and online) and could downsize to a 120gb drive and save a few dollars.
I may catch flack for the ECS board. I just bought one of these and will be installing it in the next 2 weeks or so. It seems as if ECS has stepped up its game fairly recently and has started making decent-er boards than in the past. The next "tier" of boards has all your reliable h81 offerings (biostar, asrock, msi) for about $55-60 (one listed is $45 after shipping). Of note, the mobo does come with some form of Powerdvd. I believe it's a trial. I'll know in about 2 weeks. If it's a full (but limited, bluray capable) version, its value for your purposes tremendously increases, and adding a BD drive becomes useful. Unfortunately, most slim slot-load BD players are pricey, and I would reconsider the case. I also left a DVD player out of the pricing above. The ones that fit this case are in the $40ish range usually and play very nice with Media Center. Since this was optional, I left it out for the sake of price vs features, in this case- future expansion to include dvd or bd if it becomes feasible.
Controlling this is another issue entirely that will depend on your OS, but if can be as cheap or expensive as you want it to be. I have a handheld presentation-style Rf remote with trackpad and keyboard that was about $20. You could opt for no password and a unified remote server that launches on startup. There are a number of ways to do that.
There are also plenty of cases with bigger/better PSUs and more hard drive bays, but I tried to stick with small footprint and silent for your use. As above, no optical is maybe a weak point of this build, but I think of it from a "future expandability" standpoint as opposed to a "look what it's missing" one. You may have a different outlook. If that's the case, tweaking to a less expensive case with an equally small footprint is easy. Adding the drive is also easy. This case will always be on the "expensive" side of drives given its slot-loading requirement. Most laptop slot-loading drives should fit it just fine, though.
Happy to tweak any given part or take criticism from anyone. But I'm actually strongly considering this for myself. Again, add $40 for the case and decide if you want to pay for windows or run a free os, but $250 is about the cheapest I can get a silent, small footprint itx build with no OS.
eta: a couple of considerations of options that exist that are basically just out of your price range but worth knowing exist:
most of the itx boards have alternative-to-sata considerations (namely msata or mpcie) slots on the motherboard that would allow you to have an SSd for the mobo that doesn't occupy the 2.5" bay, allowing you to invest in a decent sized HDD if you don't have NAS/Home Server/some form of storage for media files. They're something I'm not too familiar with in terms of pricing and quality, but they're mostly small (~32-64gb) drives designed for OS and key apps with you putting all your media on an HDD that's also internal.
Likewise, several have slots that take 802.11 (wi fi) cards, which an AC + Bluetooth card goes for somewhere in the realm of $30. Some also have this chip already on-board.
And, lastly lastly, itx cases are kind of where "cool" happens. They come in very small form factors, there's also "thin mini itx" cases that look similar to a standard DVD player (allow typical "tray loading" (as opposed to "slot loading") blu Ray drives). They come from tiny to basically your standard a/v receiver-sized (which has more room for standard SATA SSd/HDD drives- cheaper than the on-board stuff mentioned earlier), but the trade off is, of course, size. If Fanless isn't appealing because you can get relatively-silent PSU in standard ATX format and feel/read a case has good airflow, there's no reason you couldn't find a slightly bigger case that has much more power to spare.
Wesena, specifically, but there are likely others, make affordable (if you go to their website and buy "slightly imperfect" models) cases that have the option to add an IR receiver as part of the case, allowing a Windows Media Center remote the ability to not need an external receiver. There are other control options, so this may be a push. Likewise, a $10-30 usb receiver + remote may be as nice to you as one that's internal.
This post was edited on 12/10/14 at 10:25 pm
Posted on 12/10/14 at 6:40 pm to Hopeful Doc
You should be called helpful doc 
Posted on 12/10/14 at 7:04 pm to Hu_Flung_Pu
Meh, reserve judgment til someone smarter says the spec don't suck. Te g3258 was down to $57 on Amazon Prime yesterday. I almost pulled the trigger. I'm OT poor and $12 would have been decent savings.
Posted on 12/10/14 at 9:50 pm to Hu_Flung_Pu
quote:
There are lots of HTPC OS out there that are decent, but you'd likely be happiest with Windows 7 or 8 with Media Center which is, unfortunately, very expensive, pushing this list really to the peak of your budget, and likely past it.
I was able to get Pro with my LSU account from tigerware for free and only had to pay $10 to get the Media Center pack.
Posted on 12/10/14 at 10:06 pm to Hopeful Doc
Fix your links. The case link brings me to Newegg's home page. Your PCpartpicker link is all sorts of fricked up. I think I can figure out that link though.
Posted on 12/10/14 at 10:15 pm to Hopeful Doc
quote:
I may catch flack for the ECS board. I just bought one of these and will be installing it in the next 2 weeks or so. It seems as if ECS has stepped up its game fairly recently and has started making decent-er boards than in the past.
ECS is the only motherboard manufacturer I'd written off completely nearly 10 years ago when they were manufacturing the PC Chips brand, which were total garbage. They used to bundle those and ECS boards with OEM pentium 4's for hella cheap. I'm talking $20 motherboard cheap.
They were totally off my radar until ASUS dropped Pegatron as its motherboard ODM recently and added ECS. I still have no experience with ECS's self-branded boards since the dark days of PC Chips and ECS bundles, but I also don't have any reason not to recommend them, especially if they're the cheapest in the category. I can't think of any board that wouldn't handle a low-power CPU, a couple of standard speed RAM modules, and a few SATA connections.
Posted on 12/10/14 at 10:20 pm to junkfunky
quote:
I was able to get Pro with my LSU account from tigerware for free and only had to pay $10 to get the Media Center pack.
Not sure if we are understanding each other or not, so I'll clarify: Windows is what I am trying to say is the expensive part. Media Center is free in 1 edition of XP, most editions of vista and 7, and then goes back to costing $10 (cheap, by my standards) in 8. Windows 7 (any version) and 8 Pro are, by comparison to things like OpenELEC, Mythbuntu, enter about any Linux distro geared toward HTPCs, very expensive (because the Linux distros are usually free).
Also, many posters are no longer undergrads, and the one in question is listed as an "Ole Miss Fan." I should have pointed out that, if he is a student, he likely qualifies for cheap/reduced windows licenses. I disregarded pricing altogether and shouldn't have, mainly because I was waiting for the OP to come back and say exactly what it was that he wanted. If the majority of use is playback of downloaded/ripped movies, there are many free OS alternatives to windows that will be equally functional in that regard. Interface, control, and "the pretty factor" will be something totally different, and I tried to keep my post fairly limited (HA!) without going down that route for the simple sake of hardware pricing that would be compatible with essentially all of the options, figuring the thread would move down that route.
Have you messed around with any of the WMC alternatives?
Posted on 12/10/14 at 10:28 pm to ILikeLSUToo
quote:
fix your links
Should be better now. I hate doing this from mobile. Don't know why the Newegg link reverts to the home page, so I linked the case directly from Habey. Newegg is selling it for $35 and claims 120w 12V 5A from the PSU (with a 60w brick...kind of odd) despite the manufacturer website saying the max supported PSU is 60w. That's actually the reason I went with this case vs adding a PicoPSU into some other case- silent operation + $35 for case and PSU is unbeatable, specifically when the case + PSU is listed at $60-80 and has decent-to-good reviews there.
This post was edited on 12/10/14 at 10:29 pm
Posted on 12/10/14 at 10:44 pm to Hopeful Doc
quote:
Newegg is selling it for $35 and claims 120w 12V 5A from the PSU (with a 60w brick...kind of odd)
Well that wouldn't make sense. 5 x 12 is 60. Probably just Newegg's error.
Have you used this case and PSU before? Under full load with a G3258, the whole PC may draw over 70 watts. Realistically, an HTPC load wouldn't put it at full power consumption, but I would be very careful.
Posted on 12/10/14 at 10:58 pm to ILikeLSUToo
quote:
Have you used this case and PSU before?
I have not. Realising that it is probably slightly underpowered then kind of pushes me to think that:
1) if the case seems cool/worth having, drop an extra $50ish on an i3-4130T (35w TDP, $118 on superbiiz right now. Worse single-core performance traded for hyperthreading (probably a net negative in this case).
2) change cases entirely to one of similar size/stature, many of which fall in the $35 Range and toss on the 120w PicoPSU and a generic power brick (also going to run around $50-60)
I would probably lean to the latter- there are tons of cool cases. This one just appealed to me for the built in Fanless PSU + my inability to remember very, very simple physics and getting excited over numbers for no good reason.
Posted on 12/10/14 at 11:50 pm to Hopeful Doc
What are you guys using WMC for? I've been a user since 2006 or so, and I've found WMC is good for two things:
1. PC-based DVR, particularly for CableCard, for which it is the only solution.
2. To be used with extenders for whole home DVR. It really was ahead of its time there, but sadly, there never really were any good extenders, at least not in the form of silent, small boxes that just worked.
There is far better software for all other purposes. Keep in mind that WMC hasn't seen any significant work since 2010 or thereabouts when Microsoft opened up CableCard support to everyone, and it is a thoroughly dead product that has significant bugs that will never be fixed. I continue to use it with my HD HomeRun Prime for CableCard, and that's it. While it works mostly acceptably for me, and I love not having to rent a noisy, small capacity DVR for $20/mo from Cox, I would not recommend it to anyone who is not an enthusiast with some skills.
For non-DVR purposes, XBMC is far better for all other video, is self-contained, and doesn't require destabilizing "codec packs" to make it play things beyond WMC's very limited OOTB wheelhouse. Even XBMC (pardon me, "Kodi") is not a product for the casual user, who would probably be better served with something like a WDTV Live. I do have a WDTV set up with a USB drive for one TV in the house; it's OK for what it is, but my personal HTPC running WMC and XBMC absolutely destroys it in every way.
While I haven't tried it, XBMC does now support DVR for unprotected channels, so it may be a viable alternative to WMC for ATSC/Clear QAM. As I see it, the primary question is, do you want to use CableCard? If so, then the only answer is WMC. If not, then consider XBMC for TV and use it for all other video regardless.
1. PC-based DVR, particularly for CableCard, for which it is the only solution.
2. To be used with extenders for whole home DVR. It really was ahead of its time there, but sadly, there never really were any good extenders, at least not in the form of silent, small boxes that just worked.
There is far better software for all other purposes. Keep in mind that WMC hasn't seen any significant work since 2010 or thereabouts when Microsoft opened up CableCard support to everyone, and it is a thoroughly dead product that has significant bugs that will never be fixed. I continue to use it with my HD HomeRun Prime for CableCard, and that's it. While it works mostly acceptably for me, and I love not having to rent a noisy, small capacity DVR for $20/mo from Cox, I would not recommend it to anyone who is not an enthusiast with some skills.
For non-DVR purposes, XBMC is far better for all other video, is self-contained, and doesn't require destabilizing "codec packs" to make it play things beyond WMC's very limited OOTB wheelhouse. Even XBMC (pardon me, "Kodi") is not a product for the casual user, who would probably be better served with something like a WDTV Live. I do have a WDTV set up with a USB drive for one TV in the house; it's OK for what it is, but my personal HTPC running WMC and XBMC absolutely destroys it in every way.
While I haven't tried it, XBMC does now support DVR for unprotected channels, so it may be a viable alternative to WMC for ATSC/Clear QAM. As I see it, the primary question is, do you want to use CableCard? If so, then the only answer is WMC. If not, then consider XBMC for TV and use it for all other video regardless.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 6:16 am to Hopeful Doc
I'm not a student, but I feel like one trying to sight through all of this information. I can get the OS free. That's not a concern. I'm just looking for the "meat and potatoes" so to speak. However, I think I'm more confused now than when I started the thread.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 6:39 am to beHop
Click my first link. That''s the internals you want to buy. Pick any "ITX" or "mini ITX" (but not "thin mini itx" case on your own. I would recommend either one that has an integrated PSU (min 120w. So ignore the case I linked). Alternatively, buy any case that is "picopsu compatible" and grab a 120w picopsu ($40-50) and a regular laptop power brick that can output 120w (about $15-20. You want a standard barrel connector).
Posted on 12/11/14 at 7:30 am to Hopeful Doc
quote:
Hopeful Doc
I went to that parts picker place just to see what I can build. Way too many options. I got lost real quick.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 1:19 pm to Hu_Flung_Pu
I ordered the Lenovo. Maybe I won't hate myself in weeks to come...
Posted on 12/11/14 at 1:54 pm to Hopeful Doc
Sorry, I was trying to say Windows Pro (7 and 8) is free via tigerware. To get MC you pay $10 to buy a key.
No, I've only used MC.
No, I've only used MC.
This post was edited on 12/11/14 at 1:55 pm
Posted on 12/11/14 at 7:19 pm to Spock's Eyebrow
I've got a HTPC since I am a cable cutter. It's got a 1tb HD in it since I didn't have my NAS when I got it. Plus I use it as a DVR so it's nice for that. I'm thinking about adding in an older SSD from a netbook I never use to speed up loading since the machine is somewhat underpowered. Depending on what software you put on it I'd be wary of underpowering it too much. I use a combo of media centers. I have a IR remote that I got free with the case and a Logitech DiNovo Edge keyboard with a touchpad. The keyboard is really nice but was a bit pricey, but they do make some cheaper and smaller options though. Both the keyboard and the IR remote have a programmable media center button. On both I have them go to WMC which I use as a DVR and little else. I find it's by far the easiest way to get DVR going. BTW, if you've decided to ditch cable completely you can get a fairly cheap antenna and get HDTV for free and DVR it with your HTPC. Pretty nifty.
I agree with you spock that WMC is not great and is really outdated. It's kind of a shame because MS has the muscle to really make a killer media center offering with Win8 and its available apps, and with a potentially updated WMC that utilizes some of the things they have for XBox, etc. Alas, instead you have software that is a very nice DVR but not much else. I found some extenders that add launchers to other media centers which is what I tend to do alot. I have XBMC, Plex, Hulu & Boxee (neither of these are supported anymore). XBMC is awesome but I do find it to be unstable at times. It has DVR capabilities but I've found they aren't as stable as WMC.
There is also the Linux route which I don't have much experience setting up as an HTPC but you could get XBMC on that as well. There are a few pretty intense HTPC suites available as well, MythTV and one that escapes me, but could be set up as both an HTPC and smarthome server. Again, I have no practical experience with running an HTPC on these, but I do occasionally use XBMC on my linux desktop to stream my live TV from the HTPC. One other note is that you can get couchpotato or something similar and schedule your DVR remotely including from a smartphone. Pretty nifty.
Edit:
One bit about BluRay - I'd probably stray away unless you have a lot of BluRays you want to rip. A cheap player is probably a better option. The software you'll find to play them is either going to be expensive, poor performing or both. I happened to grab a blu ray player that came with a copy of PowerDVD I think. I rarely use it because playback performance is poor. This is at least partly from my machine being a bit underpowered, (4GB ram and I think whatever they called the step below i3 Sandy Bridge) but I'd be wary of your performance.
I agree with you spock that WMC is not great and is really outdated. It's kind of a shame because MS has the muscle to really make a killer media center offering with Win8 and its available apps, and with a potentially updated WMC that utilizes some of the things they have for XBox, etc. Alas, instead you have software that is a very nice DVR but not much else. I found some extenders that add launchers to other media centers which is what I tend to do alot. I have XBMC, Plex, Hulu & Boxee (neither of these are supported anymore). XBMC is awesome but I do find it to be unstable at times. It has DVR capabilities but I've found they aren't as stable as WMC.
There is also the Linux route which I don't have much experience setting up as an HTPC but you could get XBMC on that as well. There are a few pretty intense HTPC suites available as well, MythTV and one that escapes me, but could be set up as both an HTPC and smarthome server. Again, I have no practical experience with running an HTPC on these, but I do occasionally use XBMC on my linux desktop to stream my live TV from the HTPC. One other note is that you can get couchpotato or something similar and schedule your DVR remotely including from a smartphone. Pretty nifty.
Edit:
One bit about BluRay - I'd probably stray away unless you have a lot of BluRays you want to rip. A cheap player is probably a better option. The software you'll find to play them is either going to be expensive, poor performing or both. I happened to grab a blu ray player that came with a copy of PowerDVD I think. I rarely use it because playback performance is poor. This is at least partly from my machine being a bit underpowered, (4GB ram and I think whatever they called the step below i3 Sandy Bridge) but I'd be wary of your performance.
This post was edited on 12/11/14 at 7:25 pm
Posted on 12/11/14 at 7:39 pm to beHop
I bought an HP Chromebox. I don't have cable but wanted something that I could stream through. I have an older smart TV and Blu-ray player that doesn't have the Amazon prime app. I also wanted to be able to stream Saint's games from certain sites. That is why I chose that over say a Roku type device. It also plays media files from usb drives among other things. I bought a wireless keyboard with built in touch pad so I can relax on the sofa. It is just a stop gap measure until I can build a nice HTPC. I think the total cost with tax was ~$175.
My 4 yr old daughter wanted me to post the dancing banana.
My 4 yr old daughter wanted me to post the dancing banana.
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