re: Paid white tail hunts VS really earning a trophy

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now then, before that foreigner gets back, weren't we discussing our upcoming hunt?

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I don't think they allow foreigners in Mis'sippi

Hunting leased/public land is not about being lucky (for some yes). There is a ton a scouting and planning that goes into it and some can kill large deer just about every year. Some high fences DO let you pick the deer you want. I am not saying that management doesnt go into high fence places. I am saying that it's easier to kill a trophy in a controlled area. Otherwise, they wouldnt put the fence up. You can try to defend it all you want, but most on here have been to one and you're almost guaranteed to see a trophy in the first 3 days. Go on a fair chase lottery hunt in the midwest if you want to take down a large buck and brag about it. Instead of having a $20K wall ornament.

Like boasting about a 10 pound bass from a farm pond.....

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You pretty much luck up on public land

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I guess the people that regularly kill 150"+ deer on public land are the luckiest people alive

Where do you draw the line?

What if I purchase 2000 acres of MS river bottom hardwoods, put up a fence around it, survay my herd, find terrible genetics, introduce a strict 5-10 year management program, then start killing 140-180" deer with some regularity?

Is that not hunting? I think it is, just some people let jealousy cloud their judgement of others.

Maybe that's the case in Arkansas. But down here I don't think it's true. I know a lot of people hunting down here, and off of public land. I don't believe there are people killing 150's regularly. If someone else here knows of it happening, please, correct me... and tell me where they are hunting... exactly.

Also, link didn't work for me.

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If you aren't close friends with them you aren't going to know about it. Guys that are killing deer like that on public land aren't going to share much info. I have a good friend that killed 6 140" or bigger deer in the last 7 years in "Kansas" . In reality they came off of the White River Refuge. The dad of a girl I used to date had (at the time) 12 P&Y bucks (including 4 that grossed in the 170 range) all off of public land.

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I hear lots of tall tales about these super public land hunters every year. Sadly, nobody ever seems to have the photos to back up the stories which leaves me to believe most of the stories are bullshite.

There are some guys in very remote areas that have the benefit of having lightly hunted public access in their backyard. Some of them manage to do very well each year. These people are the exception and not the rule. I just don't believe you sneak Booners out of public land every year without anybody taking notice. Let's also accept that the majority of hunters on public land would more likely be categorized as meat hunters as opposed to trophy hunters. Overall, this impact on the age structure reduces the likelihood of encountering mature trophy bucks. Lets be practical, if public land was consistently killing giants everyone would be hunting there.

There are some public draw permits in areas where success is nearly guaranteed and quality is very high. In most cases a permit is drawn perhaps once every decade or so and some people never draw a permit.

I'm not a fan of high fences but recognize that there has to be a point in terms of acreage within the fence that we're pretty damn close to fair chase conditions. What is that number? I really have no idea.

My issue is with the hunting of what I call deer farms. Generally speaking were talking about very small high fenced tracts where the deer are effectively inventoried and cataloged and sold like a steer. Or similar sized tracts where the farmed deer was literally delivered by trailer the previous day to be shot by a paying customer. To each their own, but I just don't see this as being very sporting.

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What if I purchase 2000 acres of MS river bottom hardwoods, put up a fence around it, survay my herd, find terrible genetics, introduce a strict 5-10 year management program, then start killing 140-180" deer with some regularity?

Is that not hunting?

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It may be hunting. And it definitely is good work, but I don't think you can put up a picture of a deer that you killed there and say that it took the same level of skill/luck as if you killed the same size animal in an area where the general rule is "if it's brown it's down".

You have to admit the scenario you describe starts to turn from hunting to herding. The only difference between those deer and regular livestock is the amount of domestication.

I had a guy in my office a few months ago that showed me a picture of a deer that he was going to go kill. He had already paid the place for the right to go shoot him. He then showed me a picture of a deer he had killed there last time but he thought they might have fooled him because it looked a little different from the picture where he "bought" it. That is not hunting.

Not saying I am the end all be all of hunting. I only rifle and "primitive" firearm hunt for deer. I think guys that get a big deer within bow range are showing more skill/determination than I am.

Mung and I have met one of these guys. Strange fellow. Hunts where he can barely even shoot 10 yards. Wish I knew how he does it.