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Started By
Message
Short the market before 9/11?
Posted on 9/4/14 at 2:52 pm
Posted on 9/4/14 at 2:52 pm
Anyone considering shorting the market or their particular investments before 9/11 as a hedge against an ISIS event?
I've never considered something like this in the past, and most probably won't do it now, but thought it worth thinking about. I'm just as interested in views on why it's a bad idea.
I've never considered something like this in the past, and most probably won't do it now, but thought it worth thinking about. I'm just as interested in views on why it's a bad idea.
Posted on 9/4/14 at 4:08 pm to Ole War Skule
I don't necessarily think it's a bad idea but am interested to hear your vehicle of choice.... We are way overdue for a correction IMO and any ISIS event or something with Russia could send us tumbling.
Posted on 9/4/14 at 5:13 pm to eye65
quote:
am interested to hear your vehicle of choice.
I was looking at an ultra short etf on the s&p like SPXU which is 3x inverse of S&P.
Unfortunately, I'm not knowledgeable enough to know how to use options to hedge my portfolio. I would guess that would be the best way to do it without having to put up so much cash to buy the ETF. I haven't worked the numbers, but guess I'd have to put up about 1/3 of my portfolio value in the ETF to do a ball park hedge. I'm sure I wouldn't have the 'nads to do that, but was considering at least something.
I'd love someone to shoot holes in this...fire away
Posted on 9/4/14 at 5:34 pm to Ole War Skule
I just can't bring myself to be hoping there is a terrorist attack on us.
Posted on 9/4/14 at 5:57 pm to LSURussian
quote:
I just can't bring myself to be hoping there is a terrorist attack on us.
I'm pretty sure you know that hedging against acatastrophe is not hoping they will happen, but protecting oneself in case it does...one doesn't buy fire insurance hoping for a fire....usually
Posted on 9/4/14 at 6:42 pm to Ole War Skule
What's your exit plan in the case there isn't a correction? And on the flip side if the market does have a correction whats your target for buying back?
Posted on 9/4/14 at 7:00 pm to Shepherd88
I could shoot holes in trying to time any short position, but rather than that, let me say this. I see insuring your portfolio's gains as prudent. Hardly anyone does this, and yet I'd like them to shoot holes in this simple concept. Your analogy to fire insurance is exactly correct in my opinion.
Buy VIX calls. What you pay for them (called premium) is also your maximum loss. While it's not perfect, some insurance is better than no insurance. There is all sorts of information out there about what size of position you need to take to insure whatever size of portfolio you have. I can factually state it is no where near the percentage of your portfolio you mention above.
FWIW, I see buying insurance on my gains as prudent, but it is painful to watch the VIX calls expire worthless, or sell to close at a loss. Having said this, I don't much care for paying insurance premiums either, but I pay them, and I see this as very similar. I don't ever want to make a claim on either my fire insurance, or my VIX calls, but when there is a 20% adjustment downwards, it sure is nice to sell my VIX calls to recoup most of the paper loss. Just as it is nice if one of my buildings burn, to have some sort of fire insurance recovery. With this cash from the VIX gain, because a paper loss isn't really a loss the way I see it, I buy, or at least attempt to buy decently valued stocks when most everyone else doesn't have any capital left and/or is scared.
Buy VIX calls. What you pay for them (called premium) is also your maximum loss. While it's not perfect, some insurance is better than no insurance. There is all sorts of information out there about what size of position you need to take to insure whatever size of portfolio you have. I can factually state it is no where near the percentage of your portfolio you mention above.
FWIW, I see buying insurance on my gains as prudent, but it is painful to watch the VIX calls expire worthless, or sell to close at a loss. Having said this, I don't much care for paying insurance premiums either, but I pay them, and I see this as very similar. I don't ever want to make a claim on either my fire insurance, or my VIX calls, but when there is a 20% adjustment downwards, it sure is nice to sell my VIX calls to recoup most of the paper loss. Just as it is nice if one of my buildings burn, to have some sort of fire insurance recovery. With this cash from the VIX gain, because a paper loss isn't really a loss the way I see it, I buy, or at least attempt to buy decently valued stocks when most everyone else doesn't have any capital left and/or is scared.
This post was edited on 9/4/14 at 7:05 pm
Posted on 9/4/14 at 9:07 pm to Ole War Skule
quote:
as a hedge against an ISIS event?
Good god you people have come unhinged over a band of worthless barbarians.
Posted on 9/4/14 at 9:52 pm to Ole War Skule
quote:
I was looking at an ultra short etf on the s&p like SPXU which is 3x inverse of S&P.
Do it. Put all your money in that.
Posted on 9/5/14 at 5:12 am to Iowa Golfer
quote:
Buy VIX calls.
I'm looking at buying VIX calls or buying SPY puts. I'm reading that the SPY puts are more expensive, but correlate better.
quote:
I don't ever want to make a claim on either my fire insurance, or my VIX calls
What percent of your portfolio value do you try to hedge?
one of many strategies using VIX
Do you have a formula you use to determine what VIX position you take?
Posted on 9/5/14 at 6:04 am to Ole War Skule
The is an official ISIS board it was just misspelled as Political Talk.
Posted on 9/5/14 at 6:55 am to cave canem
I try to get a 30 delta on the majority of my gain.
Usually 1-3% over my cost basis.
That's not exact, I don't cover my gain from day one. Many times I pick an arbitrary figure based on whatever portfolio amount I want to keep intact as to keep the cost down. e.g. If my portfolio is worth $100K I don't cover $100K, I might be comfortable with having $80K intact in a worst case scenario. A higher deductible so to speak.
Usually 1-3% over my cost basis.
That's not exact, I don't cover my gain from day one. Many times I pick an arbitrary figure based on whatever portfolio amount I want to keep intact as to keep the cost down. e.g. If my portfolio is worth $100K I don't cover $100K, I might be comfortable with having $80K intact in a worst case scenario. A higher deductible so to speak.
Posted on 9/5/14 at 7:03 am to Iowa Golfer
I've been buying TVIX when it gets around $2.60-2.65. Made money on them twice already.
Posted on 9/5/14 at 8:31 am to b-rab2
Good short term play. It's a note, so be careful as they often eat up nav and are hugely subject to credit risk, contango and backwardation.
Posted on 9/5/14 at 8:36 am to Iowa Golfer
I had never heard of TVIX and read up a little just now...seems there are quite a few 'issues' with it, as you note, where it's value was swinging wildly due to issues completely unrelated to VIX. I'm already out of my league with VIX options, so TVIX is TOOmuch for me...
I've been playing around finding the right VIX call to buy...that's quite an adventure itself!
I've been playing around finding the right VIX call to buy...that's quite an adventure itself!
Posted on 9/7/14 at 2:38 pm to Ole War Skule
Two stocks that would benefit greatly from any type of terrorist or gun related event in ruger and smith&wesson. Any large event will send people back rushing to the shelves for guns and ammunition.
Posted on 9/8/14 at 5:46 pm to Ole War Skule
Nothing will happen. Don't worry
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