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Message
Will Smith not as bad as he's made out to be?
Posted on 8/6/13 at 10:08 pm
Posted on 8/6/13 at 10:08 pm
"A stat from Football Outsiders illustrates what I've been saying about #Saints Will Smith's underrated skill set as a power pass rusher. He finished fifth in NFL last year in QB hits with 15, behind big names J.J. Watt, Ndamukong Suh, Derrick Morgan and Cameron Wake.
As I've written several times this summer, Smith isn't a dynamic pass rusher, and I'm not trying to claim that he's still at a Pro Bowl level. But he does push the pocket and make offensive tackles work hard throughout games, even when his pressures don't result in sacks."
LINK
I'll let you draw your own conclusions but I've always said just looking at straight sacks is no way to judge a pass rusher. You have to add the sacks, hits, and hurries together and see how often they get pressure per pass rush snap.
Imo, he is certainly no top notch DE(or OLB) or even on a pro bowl level but he is far from a washed up has been like some try to claim. Yes he is over paid but his contract was from the old CBA with a ballooning salary cap.
He works throughout a play never quitting until the ball is out of the QBs hands and will even chase a play from behind until the whistle(albeit he doesn't ever really catch the play often because his speed isn't great). His big downsides are diminishing speed and bad angles(often letting a RB break contain and cut back).
I'm definitely interested to see what he can do at OLB this year. Maybe standing up will help him get a jump and let him see the play better so he won't take bad angles. If he doesn't pan out, we have a bunch of fresh legs waiting in the wings.
As I've written several times this summer, Smith isn't a dynamic pass rusher, and I'm not trying to claim that he's still at a Pro Bowl level. But he does push the pocket and make offensive tackles work hard throughout games, even when his pressures don't result in sacks."
LINK
I'll let you draw your own conclusions but I've always said just looking at straight sacks is no way to judge a pass rusher. You have to add the sacks, hits, and hurries together and see how often they get pressure per pass rush snap.
Imo, he is certainly no top notch DE(or OLB) or even on a pro bowl level but he is far from a washed up has been like some try to claim. Yes he is over paid but his contract was from the old CBA with a ballooning salary cap.
He works throughout a play never quitting until the ball is out of the QBs hands and will even chase a play from behind until the whistle(albeit he doesn't ever really catch the play often because his speed isn't great). His big downsides are diminishing speed and bad angles(often letting a RB break contain and cut back).
I'm definitely interested to see what he can do at OLB this year. Maybe standing up will help him get a jump and let him see the play better so he won't take bad angles. If he doesn't pan out, we have a bunch of fresh legs waiting in the wings.
14
Posted on 8/6/13 at 10:18 pm to bonethug0108
quote:
I'm definitely interested to see what he can do at OLB this year.
Yeah me too...
Posted on 8/6/13 at 10:34 pm to Breesus
I'm curious to what some of you think, how many games/sack do you give smith to "experiment" with his new position before giving more time to other OLBs. Given that the front 3 actually open some good holes for him too and giving him majority of the defensive snaps.
Posted on 8/6/13 at 10:36 pm to bonethug0108
Just lose weight, Will.
Posted on 8/6/13 at 10:45 pm to htran90
I think a lot of what happens at the position depends on injuries and how certain players pan out.
He was slated to start at Joker and Butler at Sam until he went down. At that point I thought there was a good chance Junior could eventually overtake him at Joker in playing time, though still splitting it.
Now that he has moved to Sam I think Junior will lock down the Joker spot with possibly Martin and/or Johnson getting some snaps.
With Wilson going down for half to the whole preseason, I think that clears the way for Smith to start the season and possibly the first quarter of it. I do still think when Wilson gets healthy he'll push for playing time and it'll probably become about a 50/50 split between the 2.
I think the huge advantages Smith has is his experience, size, and motor. You want your OLBs to be a bit big in the 3-4(which is why we pursued Kruger). His experience will help him with making sure he's in the right place doing the right thing. And despite his age and declining speed he still works his arse off every play.
Now if the young guys can become consistent then that will change everything. Problem is most of these guys are raw and we've always brought the rookies along slowly(save for a special few).
He was slated to start at Joker and Butler at Sam until he went down. At that point I thought there was a good chance Junior could eventually overtake him at Joker in playing time, though still splitting it.
Now that he has moved to Sam I think Junior will lock down the Joker spot with possibly Martin and/or Johnson getting some snaps.
With Wilson going down for half to the whole preseason, I think that clears the way for Smith to start the season and possibly the first quarter of it. I do still think when Wilson gets healthy he'll push for playing time and it'll probably become about a 50/50 split between the 2.
I think the huge advantages Smith has is his experience, size, and motor. You want your OLBs to be a bit big in the 3-4(which is why we pursued Kruger). His experience will help him with making sure he's in the right place doing the right thing. And despite his age and declining speed he still works his arse off every play.
Now if the young guys can become consistent then that will change everything. Problem is most of these guys are raw and we've always brought the rookies along slowly(save for a special few).
Posted on 8/6/13 at 11:49 pm to bonethug0108
If he's in to rush the passer 9/10 plays I'll be ok with him being in. I just don't think he can keep up in the passing game at his size and quickness
Posted on 8/6/13 at 11:53 pm to Melvin
Ryan runs a lot of 3-3-5 and other craziness in his nickel packages so I imagine Smith won't be in for coverage too often. I see either him or Galette being a rush OLB in nickel(but not both at the same time too often) or even one dropping down to DE in nickel situations if both are on the field.
This post was edited on 8/6/13 at 11:55 pm
Posted on 8/6/13 at 11:59 pm to bonethug0108
Sometimes we are guilty of making players seem a 100x worse than they actually are (Ingram)
Posted on 8/7/13 at 12:30 am to BarbeTiger
Yeah I mean even Shanle to a degree was put down pretty harshly. It wasn't until Vilma and Hawthorne both got healthy(ish) that we were able to bench him, and that's again only because Lofton took Vilma's old spot. The guy was mediocre but he didn't suck balls like some other guys.
I think the only recent ones to truly deserve it are Jason David and Sedrick Ellis(excuse if my absent-mindedness forgot someone).
I think the only recent ones to truly deserve it are Jason David and Sedrick Ellis(excuse if my absent-mindedness forgot someone).
Posted on 8/7/13 at 12:33 am to bonethug0108
Only player left from the Haslett-era. He must be doing something right.
Posted on 8/7/13 at 12:34 am to BarbeTiger
quote:
Sometimes we are guilty of making players seem a 100x worse than they actually are (Ingram)
Posted on 8/7/13 at 12:37 am to bonethug0108
Him transitioning to OLB in the 3-4 is going to be painful. He was an average 4-3 DE that is used to playing with his hand in the dirt. He is not the type of pass rusher that has multiple moves - he has one, bull rush the passer and attempt to run over whoever is in his way.
With him moving to a standing OLB role, he may have to compensate for the lack of leverage that he will lose from this transition by getting a running start. That will mean off-sides penalties when the QB moves to a hard-count and it won't leave much mystery for the QB to decipher at the LOS. A pass-rushing OLB's best ally is duplicity, and the unique ability to screw with the QB's head.
With him moving to a standing OLB role, he may have to compensate for the lack of leverage that he will lose from this transition by getting a running start. That will mean off-sides penalties when the QB moves to a hard-count and it won't leave much mystery for the QB to decipher at the LOS. A pass-rushing OLB's best ally is duplicity, and the unique ability to screw with the QB's head.
Posted on 8/7/13 at 12:41 am to bountyhunter
quote:
Him transitioning to OLB in the 3-4 is going to be painful. He was an average 4-3 DE that is used to playing with his hand in the dirt. He is not the type of pass rusher that has multiple moves - he has one, bull rush the passer and attempt to run over whoever is in his way.
With him moving to a standing OLB role, he may have to compensate for the lack of leverage that he will lose from this transition by getting a running start. That will mean off-sides penalties when the QB moves to a hard-count and it won't leave much mystery for the QB to decipher at the LOS. A pass-rushing OLB's best ally is duplicity, and the unique ability to screw with the QB's head.
Hopefully, the opponents will underestimate him as much as you do.
Posted on 8/7/13 at 12:42 am to bonethug0108
quote:
Ryan runs a lot of 3-3-5 and other craziness in his nickel packages so I imagine Smith won't be in for coverage too often. I see either him or Galette being a rush OLB in nickel(but not both at the same time too often) or even one dropping down to DE in nickel situations if both are on the field.
Yes he does like the 3-3-5, and that would probably mean Jenkins at nickel, KV @ free, and Harper at SS. We did make upgrades in the secondary this off-season, lets hope it's enough to mask the atrocious potential for our LB corps.
Posted on 8/7/13 at 12:46 am to bonethug0108
que all the D-line gurus of the board.
Posted on 8/7/13 at 12:47 am to Hoodoo Man
quote:
Hopefully, the opponents will underestimate him as much as you do.
Underestimate or not, going Braveheart on a premier OT just doesn't work. You have to try something new every time to get around them. I hope he can develop some new skills, we're going to need him to perform.
Posted on 8/7/13 at 12:50 am to bountyhunter
Maybe he'll pick up a new move since he has room to move about.
Or something.
Or maybe our O line will shuffle everyone about.
OR maybe our unproven LB corps will do some awesome shite on the field.
The point is, passes were batted, dreams were had.
Or something.
Or maybe our O line will shuffle everyone about.
OR maybe our unproven LB corps will do some awesome shite on the field.
The point is, passes were batted, dreams were had.
Posted on 8/7/13 at 12:51 am to LooseCannon22282
quote:
que all the D-line gurus of the board.
Not saying I'm a guru, but I did start 18 games as a LB at Mississippi State. All I am saying is it is a tall order to expect a guy that has played one way for 10+ years to completely change how he plays. Is it impossible? No, just highly unlikely that he will perform well.
This post was edited on 8/7/13 at 12:52 am
Posted on 8/7/13 at 12:52 am to bountyhunter
quote:
Not saying I'm a guru, but I did start 18 games as a LB at Mississippi State.
Nice grind.
Posted on 8/7/13 at 12:56 am to LooseCannon22282
It was a load of fun. I wasn't on a full scholarship, so I left my senior year and transferred to SLU to be closer to home and finish out my degree. My parents make fun of me because I am still a die hard LSU fan, and when my two teams play I still wear purple and gold. 
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