Tesla making honest car dealers very angry | Page 6 | TigerDroppings.com

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JohnnyKilroy
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Oct 2012
8480 posts

re: Tesla making honest car dealers very angry


Not on a supercharger.


Tesla basically said that they are going ahead with their designs and going to implement their network and everyone else can choose to jump on board or not. They aren't gonna wait around for some consensus to be reached by the auto industry.






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Broke
LSU Fan
AKA Buttercup
Member since Sep 2006
56923 posts

re: Tesla making honest car dealers very angry


So each manufacturer has their own network of stations? Seems like a horrible idea.





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JohnnyKilroy
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Oct 2012
8480 posts

re: Tesla making honest car dealers very angry


quote:

So each manufacturer has their own network of stations? Seems like a horrible idea.



Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Tesla is the only manufacturer that has planned their own network.

I don't believe toyota or nissan or anyone else has developed a station or networks of stations to be used by their cars.

It's a gamble. Tesla could be dumping billions into a technology that will be defunct in 10 years, or they could be the originators of the universal standard. Time will tell.






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cwill
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Jan 2005
25443 posts
 Online 

re: Tesla making honest car dealers very angry


quote:

Really? Its a textbook business move. Bill Gates made a gazillion dollars doing it. Freeze out the competition, until they can't afford to compete. He even lost in the Supreme Court, but was so entrenched that it didn't matter


It is not a textbook business move and it is not what Bill Gates did....but you apparently support government picking winners and losers? Interfering in the free-market to support favored industries and locking out innovation? Are you a fricking communist?






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JohnnyKilroy
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Oct 2012
8480 posts

re: Tesla making honest car dealers very angry


Musk is apparently going to demonstrate a way to recharge a Model S as quickly/quicker than filling up a gas tank on June 20.

He also mad about the NADA






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Korkstand
LSU Fan
Plaquemine, LA
Member since Nov 2003
10091 posts

re: Tesla making honest car dealers very angry


quote:

Musk is apparently going to demonstrate a way to recharge a Model S as quickly/quicker than filling up a gas tank on June 20.

This will more than likely be a battery swap demo.






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JohnnyKilroy
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Oct 2012
8480 posts

re: Tesla making honest car dealers very angry


quote:

This will more than likely be a battery swap demo.



Yea most likely. They have hinted that a battery swap system is in the works.

The article I posted also mentioned the next tesla model due in 2016-2017 which will be ~30k (after subsidies) and will get at least 200 miles/charge on the smallest battery.






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League Champs
Bayou Self
Member since Oct 2012
3288 posts

re: Tesla making honest car dealers very angry


quote:

Checkmate? Not even close.


quote:

Tesla Retreats After May Sales


quote:

In its Q1 report, Tesla said it expected to deliver about 21,000 vehicles this year vs. 20,000 in its prior forecast.


quote:

Luxury electric car maker Tesla Motors (TSLA) sold 1,425 cars in May and 7,506 so far this year in the U.S. Autodata estimates in a new report the data suggests slower sales than the average monthly rate of 1,633 that Tesla counted in Q1

quote:

Tesla has a long way to go, and tremendous risks remain, ... "Just ask yourself, who is better positioned long term to be a dominant player in this industry? GM, Ford (F), VW (VLKAY), Toyota, Nissan, Honda (HMC), Hyundai or Tesla? We're not prepared to answer that question. But we're asking it.







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League Champs
Bayou Self
Member since Oct 2012
3288 posts

re: Tesla making honest car dealers very angry


quote:

but you apparently support government picking winners and losers? Interfering in the free-market to support favored industries and locking out innovation? Are you a fricking communist?

Explain to me how electric car subsidies work again? Is the govt picking a winner here? Is Tesla really priced at free market value?

Same concept with solar panels. There is no savings vs what is currently available on the free market ... unless I have to pay for my gas, and your battery charges to. What the frick kind of communism is that?






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Korkstand
LSU Fan
Plaquemine, LA
Member since Nov 2003
10091 posts

re: Tesla making honest car dealers very angry


quote:

League Champs

WTF are you trying to prove by quoting snippets from a random article? BTW this is my favorite:
quote:

Tesla has a long way to go, and tremendous risks remain, ... "Just ask yourself, who is better positioned long term to be a dominant player in this industry? GM, Ford (F), VW (VLKAY), Toyota, Nissan, Honda (HMC), Hyundai or Tesla? We're not prepared to answer that question. But we're asking it.

Where the ... part you left out goes like this:
quote:

we may be witnessing an interplay of technology, industrial strategy and capital not unlike Cornelius Vanderbilt and the railroads, or Thomas Edison and electrical distribution,"


Your argument is so weak and pathetic that I'm having trouble even understanding what you're trying to prove. Do you honestly think Tesla will never be allowed to sell cars in Texas, and that other states will follow suit? Do you not see how mind-blowingly ridiculous it is to prevent a company from selling its products directly to consumers? This anti-business and anti-American bull shite is not going to fly forever.






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Korkstand
LSU Fan
Plaquemine, LA
Member since Nov 2003
10091 posts

re: Tesla making honest car dealers very angry


quote:

Explain to me how electric car subsidies work again? Is the govt picking a winner here?

They work pretty similarly to the subsidies we have been giving the oil and gas industries for a long, long time, and continue to give them even though they are very profitable on their own. Surely you can see how the taxpayer is keeping our gasoline prices artificially low, and in turn reducing the ownership costs of owning gas vehicles, right? Don't you think the playing field should be level?






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WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: Tesla making honest car dealers very angry


quote:

They work pretty similarly to the subsidies we have been giving the oil and gas industries for a long, long time, and continue to give them even though they are very profitable on their own.


LeagueChamps shouldn't let facts get in his way.



full size






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League Champs
Bayou Self
Member since Oct 2012
3288 posts

re: Tesla making honest car dealers very angry


quote:

LeagueChamps shouldn't let facts get in his way.

One should know facts before embarrassing themselves

1) your graph is from the Environmental Law Institute. Sounds like a very unbiased source

2) their subsidies also include natural gas and coal. Really? That effects the price of gasoline?

3) their subsidies also include all foreign tax credits. Why? Because we get oil from other countries

4) and this one is my personal favorite. Their subsidies include military spending, because we have involvement in several oil producing nations.

Here's the truth:
quote:

"subsidies" available to the oil and gas industries are general business opportunity credits, available to all US businesses (particularly, the foreign tax credit mentioned above)


Tesla has benefitted from 2.4 billion in battery studies, 500 mil in direct subsidies, and another 150 mil to purchasers

And that's just one company






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League Champs
Bayou Self
Member since Oct 2012
3288 posts

re: Tesla making honest car dealers very angry


quote:

They work pretty similarly to the subsidies we have been giving the oil and gas industries for a long, long time, and continue to give them even though they are very profitable on their own. Surely you can see how the taxpayer is keeping our gasoline prices artificially low, and in turn reducing the ownership costs of owning gas vehicles, right?

I really don't think you or Wiki has a clue actually

We're taking Tesla subsidies. Tesla is an automaker. Why are you talking about fuel subsidies. Shouldn't you be comparing Ford subsidies?

Because if we're talking fuel subsidies, then you have to throw in those fossil fuels in Wiki's chart because where in the hell do you think the power comes from to charge those batteries?






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Korkstand
LSU Fan
Plaquemine, LA
Member since Nov 2003
10091 posts

re: Tesla making honest car dealers very angry


quote:

1) your graph is from the Environmental Law Institute. Sounds like a very unbiased source
If you can't discredit the data, try to discredit the source based on its name, huh? This from the guy who modified quotes from an article to suit his purpose.
quote:

2) their subsidies also include natural gas and coal. Really? That effects the price of gasoline?
What's important here? The dollar amount, or the fact that oil companies benefit from subsidies exactly like you are deriding Tesla for?
quote:

"subsidies" available to the oil and gas industries are general business opportunity credits, available to all US businesses (particularly, the foreign tax credit mentioned above)
quote:

Oil producers successfully lobbied for inclusion in a 2004 bill that gave the beleaguered manufacturing sector a special tax break designed to discourage outsourcing of jobs. For a number of reasons—including the capital-intensive nature of oil production, the relative mobility of investments, and of course the level of profitability—there are vast differences between the oil industry and traditional U.S. manufacturing. As Sen. Bob Corker, a Tennessee Republican, has explained: “Congress was trying to solve a manufacturing issue in this country” by enacting the deduction and included oil producers “almost inadvertently.”

quote:

Tesla has benefitted from 2.4 billion in battery studies
That is the cost of the entire project, that is not how much Tesla received. Why don't you break it down and see how much went to other car manufacturers?

Besides, these subsidies are akin to how taxpayer dollars helped develop computer chip technology and the internet itself, which thousands of companies have directly benefited from. There is nothing special about these subsidies. Every industry from alternative energy, to oil, to tech, to agriculture are the recipients of subsidies. If you want to argue for ending all subsides, then I think you need to sit down and think about how many profitable, self-sustaining industries have been created by taxpayers. Many of these industries are essential today, and simply would not have sprung up without government help because technology can take decades to become profitable. If you think the subsidies are giving Tesla an unfair advantage, then you are really reaching for shite because all car manufacturers are eligible for the same subsidies. Tesla isn't special.
quote:

We're taking Tesla subsidies. Tesla is an automaker. Why are you talking about fuel subsidies. Shouldn't you be comparing Ford subsidies?

Like I said, the subsidies don't have Tesla's name on them. All manufacturers can (and many do) take advantage of the same subsidies.
quote:

Because if we're talking fuel subsidies, then you have to throw in those fossil fuels in Wiki's chart because where in the hell do you think the power comes from to charge those batteries?

Electricity can come from many sources, and I'm sure you're pretty pissed that subsidies are helping to fund the transition from fossil fuels to renewable sources. I'm sorry, but subsidies got us to where we are today, and they will take us into the future as well. Calling out Tesla for benefiting from such programs is unfair at best, and flat out dishonest at worst.


But all of this is just a distraction from the fact that you can't explain the logic behind blocking Tesla from selling cars in Texas.






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cwill
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Jan 2005
25443 posts
 Online 

re: Tesla making honest car dealers very angry


quote:

Explain to me how electric car subsidies work again? Is the govt picking a winner here? Is Tesla really priced at free market value?


Soooo are you for or against gov picking winners and losers...or is it that you are just for gov picking winners and losers when you're favored industry/company is the winner?

And as already stated nearly every industry received a subsidy so in a sense this levels the playing field..... But I'd be fine with all subsidies going away.



This post was edited on 6/6 at 11:09 pm


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League Champs
Bayou Self
Member since Oct 2012
3288 posts

re: Tesla making honest car dealers very angry


quote:

But all of this is just a distraction from the fact that you can't explain the logic behind blocking Tesla from selling cars in Texas.

You still don't get it

Tesla received a half a billion to get started, 7500 per sale, et al

How is that fair to Ford, in the state of Texas? They didn't take a dime off the govt, and now have to compete against an out of state company that was totally funded by that same govt

Tesla wouldn't exist in any state if they had to be funded the way Henry Ford did it. Brick and mortar in every state would bankrupt them







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lynxcat
Rutgers Fan
Member since Jan 2008
14548 posts

re: Tesla making honest car dealers very angry


quote:

Brick and mortar in every state would bankrupt them


Not in the long term...






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SG_Geaux
LSU Fan
Googolplexian Posts
Member since Aug 2004
50638 posts
 Online 

re: Tesla making honest car dealers very angry


quote:

Tesla could be dumping billions into a technology that will be defunct in 10 years, or they could be the originators of the universal standard. Time will tell.



Either way... They have balls






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ItNeverRains
LSU Fan
Franklin, TN
Member since Oct 2007
6832 posts

re: Tesla making honest car dealers very angry


Love the look of Tesla's, need longer ride time on single charge





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