re: Tesla making honest car dealers very angry

So each manufacturer has their own network of stations? Seems like a horrible idea.

quote:

---

Really? Its a textbook business move. Bill Gates made a gazillion dollars doing it. Freeze out the competition, until they can't afford to compete. He even lost in the Supreme Court, but was so entrenched that it didn't matter

---

It is not a textbook business move and it is not what Bill Gates did....but you apparently support government picking winners and losers? Interfering in the free-market to support favored industries and locking out innovation? Are you a fricking communist?

quote:

---

Musk is apparently going to demonstrate a way to recharge a Model S as quickly/quicker than filling up a gas tank on June 20.

---

This will more than likely be a battery swap demo.

quote:

---

Checkmate? Not even close.

---

quote:

---

Tesla Retreats After May Sales

---

quote:

---

In its Q1 report, Tesla said it expected to deliver about 21,000 vehicles this year vs. 20,000 in its prior forecast.

---

quote:

---

Luxury electric car maker Tesla Motors (TSLA) sold 1,425 cars in May and 7,506 so far this year in the U.S. Autodata estimates in a new report the data suggests slower sales than the average monthly rate of 1,633 that Tesla counted in Q1

---

quote:

---

Tesla has a long way to go, and tremendous risks remain, ... "Just ask yourself, who is better positioned long term to be a dominant player in this industry? GM, Ford (F), VW (VLKAY), Toyota, Nissan, Honda (HMC), Hyundai or Tesla? We're not prepared to answer that question. But we're asking it.

---

quote:

---

League Champs

---

WTF are you trying to prove by quoting snippets from a random article? BTW this is my favorite:

quote:

---

Tesla has a long way to go, and tremendous risks remain, ... "Just ask yourself, who is better positioned long term to be a dominant player in this industry? GM, Ford (F), VW (VLKAY), Toyota, Nissan, Honda (HMC), Hyundai or Tesla? We're not prepared to answer that question. But we're asking it.

---

Where the ... part you left out goes like this:

quote:

---

we may be witnessing an interplay of technology, industrial strategy and capital not unlike Cornelius Vanderbilt and the railroads, or Thomas Edison and electrical distribution,"

---

Your argument is so weak and pathetic that I'm having trouble even understanding what you're trying to prove. Do you honestly think Tesla will never be allowed to sell cars in Texas, and that other states will follow suit? Do you not see how mind-blowingly ridiculous it is to prevent a company from selling its products directly to consumers? This anti-business and anti-American bullshite is not going to fly forever.

quote:

---

Explain to me how electric car subsidies work again? Is the govt picking a winner here?

---

They work pretty similarly to the subsidies we have been giving the oil and gas industries for a long, long time, and continue to give them even though they are very profitable on their own. Surely you can see how the taxpayer is keeping our gasoline prices artificially low, and in turn reducing the ownership costs of owning gas vehicles, right? Don't you think the playing field should be level?

quote:

---

LeagueChamps shouldn't let facts get in his way.

---

One should know facts before embarrassing themselves

1) your graph is from the Environmental Law Institute. Sounds like a very unbiased source

2) their subsidies also include natural gas and coal. Really? That effects the price of gasoline?

3) their subsidies also include all foreign tax credits. Why? Because we get oil from other countries

4) and this one is my personal favorite. Their subsidies include military spending, because we have involvement in several oil producing nations.

Here's the truth:

quote:

---

"subsidies" available to the oil and gas industries are general business opportunity credits, available to all US businesses (particularly, the foreign tax credit mentioned above)

---

Tesla has benefitted from 2.4 billion in battery studies, 500 mil in direct subsidies, and another 150 mil to purchasers

And that's just one company

quote:

---

1) your graph is from the Environmental Law Institute. Sounds like a very unbiased source

---

If you can't discredit the data, try to discredit the source based on its name, huh? This from the guy who modified quotes from an article to suit his purpose.

quote:

---

2) their subsidies also include natural gas and coal. Really? That effects the price of gasoline?

---

What's important here? The dollar amount, or the fact that oil companies benefit from subsidies exactly like you are deriding Tesla for?

quote:

---

"subsidies" available to the oil and gas industries are general business opportunity credits, available to all US businesses (particularly, the foreign tax credit mentioned above)

---

quote:

---

Oil producers successfully lobbied for inclusion in a 2004 bill that gave the beleaguered manufacturing sector a special tax break designed to discourage outsourcing of jobs. For a number of reasons—including the capital-intensive nature of oil production, the relative mobility of investments, and of course the level of profitability—there are vast differences between the oil industry and traditional U.S. manufacturing. As Sen. Bob Corker, a Tennessee Republican, has explained: “Congress was trying to solve a manufacturing issue in this country” by enacting the deduction and included oil producers “almost inadvertently.”

---

quote:

---

Tesla has benefitted from 2.4 billion in battery studies

---

That is the cost of the entire project, that is not how much Tesla received. Why don't you break it down and see how much went to other car manufacturers?

Besides, these subsidies are akin to how taxpayer dollars helped develop computer chip technology and the internet itself, which thousands of companies have directly benefited from. There is nothing special about these subsidies. Every industry from alternative energy, to oil, to tech, to agriculture are the recipients of subsidies. If you want to argue for ending all subsides, then I think you need to sit down and think about how many profitable, self-sustaining industries have been created by taxpayers. Many of these industries are essential today, and simply would not have sprung up without government help because technology can take decades to become profitable. If you think the subsidies are giving Tesla an unfair advantage, then you are really reaching for shite because all car manufacturers are eligible for the same subsidies. Tesla isn't special.

quote:

---

We're taking Tesla subsidies. Tesla is an automaker. Why are you talking about fuel subsidies. Shouldn't you be comparing Ford subsidies?

---

Like I said, the subsidies don't have Tesla's name on them. All manufacturers can (and many do) take advantage of the same subsidies.

quote:

---

Because if we're talking fuel subsidies, then you have to throw in those fossil fuels in Wiki's chart because where in the hell do you think the power comes from to charge those batteries?

---

Electricity can come from many sources, and I'm sure you're pretty pissed that subsidies are helping to fund the transition from fossil fuels to renewable sources. I'm sorry, but subsidies got us to where we are today, and they will take us into the future as well. Calling out Tesla for benefiting from such programs is unfair at best, and flat out dishonest at worst.


But all of this is just a distraction from the fact that you can't explain the logic behind blocking Tesla from selling cars in Texas.

quote:

---

But all of this is just a distraction from the fact that you can't explain the logic behind blocking Tesla from selling cars in Texas.

---

You still don't get it

Tesla received a half a billion to get started, 7500 per sale, et al

How is that fair to Ford, in the state of Texas? They didn't take a dime off the govt, and now have to compete against an out of state company that was totally funded by that same govt

Tesla wouldn't exist in any state if they had to be funded the way Henry Ford did it. Brick and mortar in every state would bankrupt them

quote:

---

Tesla could be dumping billions into a technology that will be defunct in 10 years, or they could be the originators of the universal standard. Time will tell.

---

Either way... They have balls