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Kashonly
Member since Jan 2006
22155 posts
| How much money is enough? Is there any guidance: Employer vs employee (Posted on 1/31/13 at 4:04 pm)
I know the answer is never enough, but I just wonder if there is any guidance as to how much you ideally should be taking from company profits.
Like an ideal balance in distribution of wealth vs the current state.
I ask because I am in SF and am seeing a company getting around certain labor laws so that they won't be forced to provide insurance for employees.
I am looking at how much the company makes in profits and compare that to how much it would cost to provide insurance and it has me questioning a few things:
near 400k in profit, with 12 employees.
Is that "not enough" to provide insurance?
if profits were 500k....would that be enough to provide?
I get that people shouldn't be forced into providing anything and yada,yada,yada,free market, yada,yada,yada, blah,blah,blah
just how much do you need before you take care of the people.....or just not try to circumvent laws?
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Golfer 
LSU Fan
Coral Bay, St. John, USVI
Member since Nov 2005
47457 posts
| re: How much money is enough? Is there any guidance: Employer vs employee (Posted on 1/31/13 at 4:15 pm to Kashonly)
quote:
I am looking at how much the company makes in profits and compare that to how much it would cost to provide insurance and it has me questioning a few things:
near 400k in profit, with 12 employees.
Is that "not enough" to provide insurance?
I recently left a small company (less than 30 employees) and the group insurance cost over $500/mo a person. So at a company like that, with 12 employees, you're looking at nearly 1/4th of the profits eliminated immediately with healthcare costs.
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Kashonly
Member since Jan 2006
22155 posts
| re: How much money is enough? Is there any guidance: Employer vs employee (Posted on 1/31/13 at 4:23 pm to Golfer)
quote:
you're looking at nearly 1/4th of the profits eliminated immediately with healthcare costs.
Oh I am aware, but the legal intent of the law was for the owner to provide Health Insurance.....that money he considers his, really isn't.
It's like taking sales tax, but not submitting it to the city....is that sales tax yours?..are you losing 9.25% if you submit the sales tax?
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tigeraddict
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2007
4435 posts
| re: How much money is enough? Is there any guidance: Employer vs employee (Posted on 1/31/13 at 4:25 pm to Kashonly)
what are they classifying as profit? net profit after all expenses (including overhead, taxes, insuances ect.)
as far as insurance, with only 12 employees the company would not have to circumvent anything. need 50 + fulltime employees to require insurance through the company.
Also, since when did it become a moral obligation of a company to provide health insurance? Why not auto insurance or homeowners insurance? Should a company provide its employees with a cell phone or car? where does it stop? if the employer increased the employees pay by enough so they could pay for health insurance, would they go out and buy insurance or not?
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C
LSU Fan
The Woodlands, TX
Member since Dec 2007
17392 posts
| re: How much money is enough? Is there any guidance: Employer vs employee (Posted on 1/31/13 at 4:28 pm to Kashonly)
Would it be "fair" if said company decreased the persons salary $10k to provide $10k in insurance? Likewise would it be fair for the company to increase a persons salary by $10k and eliminate insurance?
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EA6B 
Navy Fan
TX
Member since Dec 2012
236 posts
| re: How much money is enough? Is there any guidance: Employer vs employee (Posted on 1/31/13 at 5:24 pm to Kashonly)
What employees receive in compensation and benefits is determined by what is typical in the market for people with comparable skill sets. If a business owner can legally get around Obamacare and pay no insurance benefits while retaining the employees needed there is no problem.
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ynlvr
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2009
496 posts
| re: How much money is enough? Is there any guidance: Employer vs employee (Posted on 1/31/13 at 5:28 pm to Kashonly)
quote:
that money he considers his, really isn't.
I really love this part . . . soon enough no money is "his" anymore. It's all ours! Amirite?
$400k may not be much cushion for a business cycle. I don't know. I just have a problem with assuming a company, a person, or any entity should be dictated what is fair by government or any other outside entity.
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LSUAfro
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2005
8582 posts
| re: How much money is enough? Is there any guidance: Employer vs employee (Posted on 1/31/13 at 5:34 pm to Kashonly)
I really hate this healthcare reform, but this is a poli board topic.
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foshizzle
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
25080 posts
| re: How much money is enough? Is there any guidance: Employer vs employee (Posted on 1/31/13 at 5:37 pm to Kashonly)
quote:
near 400k in profit, with 12 employees
That isn't exactly a huge cushion, especially in SF. Besides, it is not the company's responsibility to "take care of" employees, it is each employee's responsibility to look after himself. Everyone working there has the choice to go somewhere else, and those who want something better will.
FWIW, most companies that offer benefits and better conditions don't do so out of any sense of altruism. They do it b/c that's how you get good employees.
This post was edited on 1/31 at 5:39 pm
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LSUAfro
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2005
8582 posts
| re: How much money is enough? Is there any guidance: Employer vs employee (Posted on 1/31/13 at 6:08 pm to foshizzle)
quote:
That isn't exactly a huge cushion, especially in SF
it really, really isn't and its a shame small business owners are being put in this position.
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TigerDeBaiter
LSU Fan
Member since Dec 2010
2373 posts
| re: How much money is enough? Is there any guidance: Employer vs employee (Posted on 1/31/13 at 6:50 pm to Kashonly)
Mind your own business?
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VABuckeye 
Ohio State Fan
Oak Hill, VA
Member since Dec 2007
8115 posts
| re: How much money is enough? Is there any guidance: Employer vs employee (Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:04 pm to Kashonly)
I own a small company and I'm paying $30K a year for company health insurance as the business owner. Three employees total. Health insurance is damned expensive.
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VABuckeye
Ohio State Fan
Oak Hill, VA
Member since Dec 2007
8115 posts
| re: How much money is enough? Is there any guidance: Employer vs employee (Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:07 pm to Kashonly)
quote:
that money he considers his, really isn't.
Oh, really? Who is taking the risk and who is collecting paychecks with no risk involved? Guess who doesn't take a paycheck if the business goes into a tailspin? It sure as hell isn't the employees. I hate this freaking "they're rich because they own a business" mentality. We're the ones who open the doors in the morning and close them at night after everyone else is gone.
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VABuckeye
Ohio State Fan
Oak Hill, VA
Member since Dec 2007
8115 posts
| re: How much money is enough? Is there any guidance: Employer vs employee (Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:08 pm to Kashonly)
quote:
near 400k in profit
Define that $400K because I bet there isn't $400K sitting in accounts at the end of the year.
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Costanza 
Auburn Fan
Member since May 2011
305 posts
| re: How much money is enough? Is there any guidance: Employer vs employee (Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:09 pm to Kashonly)
Liberals never cease to amaze me.
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TROLA
LSU Fan
BATON ROUGE
Member since Apr 2004
5204 posts
| re: How much money is enough? Is there any guidance: Employer vs employee (Posted on 1/31/13 at 9:15 pm to Kashonly)
You mind telling us what supposed law requires this particular business to provide healthcare?
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Meauxjeaux 
Memphis Fan
I have 91k posts with all my alters
Member since Jun 2005
12981 posts
| re: How much money is enough? Is there any guidance: Employer vs employee (Posted on 1/31/13 at 10:04 pm to Kashonly)
quote:
.that money he considers his, really isn't.
Know how I know you're a Democrat?
Seriously though, I can't believe that just came out of your brain.
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foshizzle
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
25080 posts
| re: How much money is enough? Is there any guidance: Employer vs employee (Posted on 1/31/13 at 10:33 pm to VABuckeye)
quote:
I bet there isn't $400K sitting in accounts at the end of the year.
That's a minor detail. You are expected to break even at best. It's only fair.
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matthew25 
Ole Miss Fan
Member since Jun 2012
1513 posts
| re: How much money is enough? Is there any guidance: Employer vs employee (Posted on 1/31/13 at 11:47 pm to foshizzle)
Nothing to see here. No obligation, unless he wants to retain his employees from walking across the street to someone who pays for insurance benefits.
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Kashonly
Member since Jan 2006
22155 posts
| re: How much money is enough? Is there any guidance: Employer vs employee (Posted on 2/1/13 at 12:23 am to TROLA)
LINK
my issue is that businesses are supposed to follow the guild lines, not lie and cheat their way around them...and when they get caught there isn't a punitive penalty(jail or fines so high you wouldn't risk it)
Paying HC for the year > penalty for circumventing the law so you don't have to pay HC.
How are you supposed to compete against businesses that aren't "playing by the rules"?
If you don't want to play by the rules, sell or move your business.
This post was edited on 2/1 at 12:24 am
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