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Message
S&W 38 Special Revolver Ammunition
Posted on 12/31/12 at 11:34 am
Posted on 12/31/12 at 11:34 am
What type of ammunition would you suggest for a S&W 38 Special from the 50's?
Looking for the best ammo for defense, then another one for range shooting.
Let me know your suggestions. TIA.
Looking for the best ammo for defense, then another one for range shooting.
Let me know your suggestions. TIA.
7
Posted on 12/31/12 at 11:43 am to BallyHOO
quote:LINK
The Numero Uno .38 defense load for your 4" barrel revolver is the Cor-Bon .38 Special+P 125 grain JHP. It is a very high-pressure load and should be used only in modern six-shot revolvers. It has less felt recoil and muzzle flip than the #2 choice, which follows. When I carry a 4" .38, I want it loaded with this cartridge.
The second-best choice is the .38 Special +P 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter hollowpoint (LSWCHP) available from Federal, Winchester and Remington. Ayoob has found the latter to have the greatest expansion, so I would choose Remington (catalog #R38S12). This unjacketed all-lead round (often called the "FBI load" or "Chicago load") is a proven manstopper when fired from a 4" barrel. Your fixed-sight .38 revolver it will usually shoot to point-of-aim with this load; lighter bullets will normally shoot low (some very low). All fixed-sight .38s are regulated at the factory to shoot accurately with standard velocity 158 grain bullets, as this was the weight of the long-time standard U.S. and Canadian police load.
Note: .38 Special ammunition is loaded to two pressure levels: standard pressure and +P. Standard pressure loads may be used in any .38 Special revolver, but +P loads should be used only in steel-frame, six shot revolvers. Firing a few +P loads in your aluminum-framed .38 Special revolver may not destroy it or cause it to explode, but will damage your aluminum-framed revolver if you fire more than a hundred rounds. The main problem with carrying +P .38 Special loads in an aluminum-framed .38 Special revolver, besides excessive wear and tear on the gun, is that the kick is nasty and slows repeat shots. Thus, I recommend standard pressure ammunition for aluminum-framed .38 Special revolvers, as it is much easier to score fast hits.
Posted on 12/31/12 at 11:58 am to BallyHOO
I would not use +P ammo in a gun that was made before they started making +p ammo
Posted on 12/31/12 at 12:08 pm to Geauxtiga
quote:
and should be used only in modern six-shot revolvers
Prob not a good recommendation
Posted on 12/31/12 at 12:11 pm to BallyHOO
Do NOT shoot +p ammo out of that gun
Posted on 12/31/12 at 12:12 pm to Geauxtiga
quote:
Firing a few +P loads in your aluminum-framed .38 Special revolver may not destroy it or cause it to explode
Does not sound like a good idea
Posted on 12/31/12 at 1:30 pm to BallyHOO
BallyHOO,
I wouldn't shoot +P ammo in the gun unless first cleared by S&W to do. I'd send an email to S&W and ask their opinion about +P ammo in your gun.
If you end up shooting standard pressure ammo, you might consider the rest of the 38 Special recs on the "Chuck Hawks" site linked above.
"Standard Pressure (non +P) Loads.
If you carry an aluminum-frame snub nose .38 (e.g. S&W Model 38 Bodyguard, 642, 442, 37 or Colt Cobra) I urge you to carry a standard pressure (non +P) .38 round. The best standard pressure .38 load is the Federal 125 grain Nyclad hollowpoint (P38MA). This hollowpoint, known as the "Chief's Special" load, was specifically designed to expand at lower velocities and is the industry leader in standard pressure .38 rounds.
Another acceptable standard pressure .38 load is the Winchester Silvertip 110 grain JHP (X38S9HP). A third possibility is the Federal Low Recoil Personal Defense 110 grain Hydra-Shok JHP load (PD38HS3 H). "
I wouldn't shoot +P ammo in the gun unless first cleared by S&W to do. I'd send an email to S&W and ask their opinion about +P ammo in your gun.
If you end up shooting standard pressure ammo, you might consider the rest of the 38 Special recs on the "Chuck Hawks" site linked above.
"Standard Pressure (non +P) Loads.
If you carry an aluminum-frame snub nose .38 (e.g. S&W Model 38 Bodyguard, 642, 442, 37 or Colt Cobra) I urge you to carry a standard pressure (non +P) .38 round. The best standard pressure .38 load is the Federal 125 grain Nyclad hollowpoint (P38MA). This hollowpoint, known as the "Chief's Special" load, was specifically designed to expand at lower velocities and is the industry leader in standard pressure .38 rounds.
Another acceptable standard pressure .38 load is the Winchester Silvertip 110 grain JHP (X38S9HP). A third possibility is the Federal Low Recoil Personal Defense 110 grain Hydra-Shok JHP load (PD38HS3 H). "
Posted on 12/31/12 at 1:34 pm to TigerOnThe Hill
quote:
If you carry an aluminum-frame snub nose .38
almost all modern, late model aluminum frame .38s can shoot +p just fine
This post was edited on 12/31/12 at 1:36 pm
Posted on 12/31/12 at 1:52 pm to BallyHOO
Posted on 12/31/12 at 6:52 pm to weagle99
Thanks for the recommendations...I haven't shot any +P out of it.
Keep the recs coming.
Keep the recs coming.
Posted on 12/31/12 at 7:47 pm to Geauxtiga
quote:not for a 50's pistol.
Cor-Bon .38 Special+P 125 grain JHP
Posted on 12/31/12 at 7:53 pm to BallyHOO
If the gun is heirloom and you want to baby it, only shoot standard pressure Lead Round Nose through it. Definitely stay away from +P or jacketed cartridges.
Posted on 12/31/12 at 8:32 pm to Langston
quote:No and sorry. Just did a search for him and posted findings.
Prob not a good recommendation
Posted on 12/31/12 at 9:58 pm to Geauxtiga
Hard to tell how old some of this info is. From the intro it sounds like CH, or "Anonymous" (hard to tell who) has tried to "update" the Ayoob,Sanow/Marshall info.
Ayoob is a very credible source.
A lot of folks have dissected the Sanow/Marshall report and it is widely discredited in many quarters. IIRC many of the data are considered to be unsubstantiated and statistically invalid (i.e. some think much of the data was faked). I have no dog in that fight, and lack the skill to evaluate the data.
In any event, some of the recommendations are very dated -- as can be ascertained from Ayoob's more recent writings. (Some of the Ayoob books listed in the article were written in the early - mid 1980's.)
In response to the OP, I didn't see any mention of barrel length. If is a snub-nosed revolver (2" or less) Ayoob and Givens currently recommend the 135 grain Gold Dot "Short Barrel Revolver" load (Speer Product Code GDHP - SB 23921).
This load was designed to open up at lower velocities -- Such as those that are achieved through J-frame revolvers. It's considered to be the "gold standard" (no pun intended) for snub nosed .38's.
I'm not sure what Mas currently recommends for longer barreled .38's. I'm sure a Google search will yield that info. I'm pretty sure Evan Marshall currently recommends the CorBon DPX.
Ayoob is a very credible source.
A lot of folks have dissected the Sanow/Marshall report and it is widely discredited in many quarters. IIRC many of the data are considered to be unsubstantiated and statistically invalid (i.e. some think much of the data was faked). I have no dog in that fight, and lack the skill to evaluate the data.
In any event, some of the recommendations are very dated -- as can be ascertained from Ayoob's more recent writings. (Some of the Ayoob books listed in the article were written in the early - mid 1980's.)
In response to the OP, I didn't see any mention of barrel length. If is a snub-nosed revolver (2" or less) Ayoob and Givens currently recommend the 135 grain Gold Dot "Short Barrel Revolver" load (Speer Product Code GDHP - SB 23921).
This load was designed to open up at lower velocities -- Such as those that are achieved through J-frame revolvers. It's considered to be the "gold standard" (no pun intended) for snub nosed .38's.
I'm not sure what Mas currently recommends for longer barreled .38's. I'm sure a Google search will yield that info. I'm pretty sure Evan Marshall currently recommends the CorBon DPX.
Posted on 1/1/13 at 11:07 am to dawg23
dawg23,
So you think it would be ok to shoot +P ammo in this gun?
So you think it would be ok to shoot +P ammo in this gun?
Posted on 1/1/13 at 11:24 am to BallyHOO
For range shooting, just get whatever standard pressure .38spl load you want. 158gr is probably the best because it's the easiest on the gun and what it's probably sighted in for anyway.
As for defense, that's tricky. That gun could almost certainly handle a few +p's without screwing up, but like TOTH said, you probably should check with smith and wesson to find out. +p is definitely what you want if your gun can handle it. If it can't, you're still not undergunned. There are several bullets out there made to perform well at the low .38spl velocities. Google the "chicago load."
As for defense, that's tricky. That gun could almost certainly handle a few +p's without screwing up, but like TOTH said, you probably should check with smith and wesson to find out. +p is definitely what you want if your gun can handle it. If it can't, you're still not undergunned. There are several bullets out there made to perform well at the low .38spl velocities. Google the "chicago load."
Posted on 1/1/13 at 12:43 pm to TigerOnThe Hill
quote:
So you think it would be ok to shoot +P ammo in this gun?
The safest bet would be to use the ammo you recommended.
However, I was assuming the OP would shoot target ammo for practice and (like most of us) only shoot +p if in a SD situation. Personally I wouldn't hesitate to do this, assuming it's a steel revolver and in good condition.
Conventional wisdom (which isn't always correct) indicates that occasional use of +p ammo shouldn't hurt any S&W or Colt steel revolver manufactured after WWII (assuming the gun is in good condition).
Today's +p ammo for .38 Spl is only slightly hotter than standard pressure loads.
IIRC Elmer Keith and Jim Cirillo hand-loaded a lot of "hot" ammo for their service revolvers "back in the day."
Some of the old timers also say that "standard" ammo back then was hotter than today's standard pressure loads. I'm not sure about this.
Here's a thread form the S&W forum that argues both sides of the question. LINK
With all that said, I suspect the S&W factory would say to not use +p ammo in that vintage of weapon. So my "personal choice" would be to retire any revolver from the 50's and buy a newer generation revolver, or buy a good 9mm semi-auto. Kinda like shooting an old shotgun you inherited from your great grampaw ....... I'd retire it and trade-up to a more modern design so I wouldn't have to worry about shooting modern ammo.
Posted on 1/1/13 at 1:11 pm to Tigerpaw123
quote:
I would not use +P ammo in a gun that was made before they started making +p ammo
This.
Posted on 1/1/13 at 6:48 pm to shawnlsu
I just bought my wife a Ruger LCR for Christmas. That pertains to nothing in this thread, I just wanted to chime in.
Posted on 1/1/13 at 6:49 pm to SoFla Tideroller
Tree fiddy sevin or turdy eight?
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