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Question about the double helmet to helmet play in the Florida State/OU game...
Posted on 9/18/11 at 10:01 pm
Posted on 9/18/11 at 10:01 pm
I think the rules need to be changed in regards to how OU was penalized.
I think that the penalty should have been enforced at the spot of the foul. The only reason it was enforced at the original line of scrimmage and not the spot of the foul was because the receiver fumbled the ball and OU recovered.
However, the personal foul CAUSED the fumble. It was an illegal play by OU, but they benefited from it (ie, ball placed on the 5 instead of the 1). With the ball at the one, perhaps FSU punches it in with a run. Instead, they attempted a pass and were intercepted. Huge momentum shift.
Perhaps this has been discussed, but what are your thoughts on this?
I think that the penalty should have been enforced at the spot of the foul. The only reason it was enforced at the original line of scrimmage and not the spot of the foul was because the receiver fumbled the ball and OU recovered.
However, the personal foul CAUSED the fumble. It was an illegal play by OU, but they benefited from it (ie, ball placed on the 5 instead of the 1). With the ball at the one, perhaps FSU punches it in with a run. Instead, they attempted a pass and were intercepted. Huge momentum shift.
Perhaps this has been discussed, but what are your thoughts on this?
3
Posted on 9/18/11 at 10:08 pm to Chicken
I wouldn't think this would change unless the PI penalty does as well.
I'm kinda on the fence about both of them.
I'm kinda on the fence about both of them.
Posted on 9/18/11 at 10:10 pm to Myshkin
I just don't think a personal foul, especially one of the helmet to helmet variety, should benefit the team that committed the penalty...never.
Posted on 9/18/11 at 10:12 pm to Chicken
i certain it was ruled an incomplete pass. and the personal foul is a 15 yd penalty not a spot foul.
Posted on 9/18/11 at 10:37 pm to tigermike5
I thought he clearly caught it. I had to leave when they were attending to the injured player and didn't see them mark off the penalty, but it appears that he caught it (I was at a restaurant and didn't hear any commentary)...so it was ruled incomplete? Did they review it? Looks like he caught it...
Posted on 9/18/11 at 10:41 pm to Chicken
Looked like he caught it and then fumbled when he got knocked out, but I do believe they ruled it incomplete.
Posted on 9/18/11 at 10:57 pm to PsychTiger
ok, I guess the question remains, if it was ruled a catch and fumble, how would the penalty be assessed?
Posted on 9/19/11 at 3:14 am to Chicken
dude caught the ball in the end zone. then both defenders lowered their helmets and led in with em connecting with his. The moment that happened he went unconscious. after he lost consciousness he dropped the ball.
I think on illegal plays like that the player committing the hit should be penalized somehow. like has to sit a quarter.
same thought process with pass interference. that penalty benefits the defense. if the defender gets burnt and the pass is beyond 15 yards, just wrap up the receiver. better to give up a 15 yard penalty then like a 40 yard pass. i like how the pros do it where it's a spot of the penalty foul.
I think on illegal plays like that the player committing the hit should be penalized somehow. like has to sit a quarter.
same thought process with pass interference. that penalty benefits the defense. if the defender gets burnt and the pass is beyond 15 yards, just wrap up the receiver. better to give up a 15 yard penalty then like a 40 yard pass. i like how the pros do it where it's a spot of the penalty foul.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 3:46 am to Chicken
quote:
Perhaps this has been discussed, but what are your thoughts on this?
Referees are able to take away points due to non contact personal fouls
While I think that's pretty stupid, it does set the precedent for allowing them to be able to award points on a controlled basis for plays like this.
It's obvious to everyone that he would have scored a touchdown if not for the PF. Therefore, award the touchdown.
Under the current rules though, two personal fouls should have been called, one 15 yards, and one half the distance.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 3:48 am to Chicken
quote:
ok, I guess the question remains, if it was ruled a catch and fumble, how would the penalty be assessed?
15 yards from the end of the run, like a facemask or a horsecollar tackle causing a fumble
FSU ball at the 1 yard line
This post was edited on 9/19/11 at 3:49 am
Posted on 9/19/11 at 6:23 am to PsychTiger
quote:They did, which by the rules currently in place in college football was the right call.
they ruled it incomplete
The rules say that if you are going to the ground, you have to maintain possession through contact with the ground. In this case the receiver was hit and ko'd, which caused him to drop the ball on his way down. I know it is an extraordinary case in that had he not been knocked out he would have most likely been able to maintain possession, but he didn't and the rule was enforced correctly.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 7:19 am to Tigercoop40
quote:
dude caught the ball in the end zone
No he landed back in the end zone after the hit.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 7:23 am to Chicken
Man I dont know the rule but that was one nasty hit, I thought dude might be dead
Posted on 9/19/11 at 7:34 am to baytiger
What was the final word on the kid's condition? Just knocked out with a concussion?
Posted on 9/19/11 at 7:37 am to COPPA
I thought the same thing as Chicken. The dirty play literally cost FSU 7 points and a receiver for the rest of the game. Maybe the refs should have the option to award the ball on the spot if the flagged hit "prevented a likely complete pass".
Posted on 9/19/11 at 7:37 am to SM6
Yes, concussion. Heard he was back on the sideline before the game ended.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 8:00 am to GeauxTigersLee
It wasn't helmet to helmet. They both hit him with their shoulders and had he not been falling right as they hit him, they would have hit all shoulder pad. It definitely wasn't dirty.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 8:21 am to QueenKahn
They both hit him helmet to helmet. I watched it repeatedly on a 50" high def tv with tivo. I don't think it was intentional though. The defenders left their feet as the receiver was falling down. It is still a penalty by any definition. It was a perfect storm.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 8:46 am to mworld938
I agree it was a penalty because they hit him high since he was falling down, but it still doesn't look like helmet to helmet to me. It looks to me like they both turn their shoulders into him.
Posted on 9/19/11 at 8:52 am to QueenKahn
I have always thought that the player causing an injury on a penalized hit should sit the same length as the injured player. If that player misses the year so does the offender.....might teach a lesson to some of these headhunting plays.
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