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Klinsmann tactics v Bradley tactics
Posted on 7/29/11 at 5:17 pm
Posted on 7/29/11 at 5:17 pm
Because yes, we needed one more thread.
But I'm not at all familiar with Jürgen's desired style of play at all. So Hendo, Sheep, Stewie... please fill me in. What kind of formations and tactics can we expect to see?
But I'm not at all familiar with Jürgen's desired style of play at all. So Hendo, Sheep, Stewie... please fill me in. What kind of formations and tactics can we expect to see?
2
Posted on 7/29/11 at 5:21 pm to Meursault
It's said that he is going to change our tactics from a defensive mindset to an aggressive attacking mindset that will range down to the youth teams.
Posted on 7/29/11 at 5:37 pm to UASports23
I'm guessing it won't really be manifested for another year or two, into qualifications, until he can get players who can play his style. Certainly we have some guys......
I hope we still see the aggressive Cherundolo, and Lichaj. I would think Donovan and Dempsey would be suited to it. But in my estimation, we need a healthy Stu, a healthy CD9 and some younger guys with skills.
If you rewatched his analysis on YouTube, he said the same thing I've been saying for years...."first touch is horrible" That's what he'll be looking for. Guys who can control the ball immediately and be making their move at the same time.
Obviously, we don't have ten guys ready to play that way.
I hope we still see the aggressive Cherundolo, and Lichaj. I would think Donovan and Dempsey would be suited to it. But in my estimation, we need a healthy Stu, a healthy CD9 and some younger guys with skills.
If you rewatched his analysis on YouTube, he said the same thing I've been saying for years...."first touch is horrible" That's what he'll be looking for. Guys who can control the ball immediately and be making their move at the same time.
Obviously, we don't have ten guys ready to play that way.
Posted on 7/29/11 at 5:43 pm to RedPop4
quote:
Obviously, we don't have ten guys ready to play that way.
We have that many.
They just aren't necessarily athletic enough.
Posted on 7/29/11 at 5:45 pm to RedPop4
quote:
I'm guessing it won't really be manifested for another year or two, into qualifications, until he can get players who can play his style. Certainly we have some guys......
FYI.... Qualifying starts next year.
Honestly, I think Bob's downfall was trying to get away from what the US did well.
In 2007 - 2008 we were still a bunker and counter team, and we were damned good at it. We tried to expand/possess/whatever you want to call it technically. In the next two years, our level of play decreased. When we went back to bunker & counter (Mexico 2009, Spain 2009, first half of Brazil 2009, @Honduras 2009) we played well. Really well.
Our players are still best suited to that style. We need to progress technically, but it may be at the cost of results.
I hope the fan base is ready for that.
Re: Klinsmann... I don't know. I've got the 2006 World Cup on DVD. I'll try to watch some of those games and get a grip on what's going on.
Posted on 7/29/11 at 6:01 pm to Sheep
quote:
We need to progress technically, but it may be at the cost of results.
I hope the fan base is ready for that.
It has to happen, whether our fans are ready for it or not.
And I don't really think changing our style caused us to play a lot worse. Maybe some drop, but I don't think we were really playing great before that or anything.
This post was edited on 7/29/11 at 6:02 pm
Posted on 7/29/11 at 6:12 pm to Sheep
quote:
Honestly, I think Bob's downfall was trying to get away from what the US did well.
In 2007 - 2008 we were still a bunker and counter team, and we were damned good at it. We tried to expand/possess/whatever you want to call it technically. In the next two years, our level of play decreased. When we went back to bunker & counter (Mexico 2009, Spain 2009, first half of Brazil 2009, @Honduras 2009) we played well. Really well.
Thank you for posting this. I read so many comments on message boards about Bradley being "too defensive minded" ect ect which I just can't seem to wrap my mind around.
Recently it seems that this is the least defensive minded USMNT I recall. Maybe it's to Bradley's credit that he's tried to open up the style a bit and, like you say, results have suffered a bit due to it.
Only time will tell, but anyone who thinks we have the roster to go Chile on even decently quality teams is in for a rude awakening. Hell, even Chile and Argentina are having trouble doing it.
I know voices like Xavi would urge teams to lose the "right way" to the Spains of the world by 5-1 margins but I'll take beating them 1-0 in the most "boring" "negative" "anti-football" game ever witnessed and be damn proud of it.
I hope that Klinsmann's ideas about youth development prove to effectual for the future but I don't think we'll see better short term results by playing a more attacking style until we have defenders with the feel of game to keep clean sheets while doing so.
Posted on 7/29/11 at 6:16 pm to Sheep
I think the general rule in soccer is to bunker against teams that are better than you and play possession against teams you are better than.
I think the U.S. has done that for the most part although it's always tough to figure out if we are better or worse than Mexico in a neutral setting (so do we bunker or posess?).
The biggest problem for the U.S. is just that the attack isn't reliably good at scoring goals, so we can possess and attack and still beat a bad side 1-0, and if we bunker against a top side, we are usually looking for a fluke goal. Spain was the best case scenario, but obviously that kind of game doesn't happen all that often.
I think the U.S. has done that for the most part although it's always tough to figure out if we are better or worse than Mexico in a neutral setting (so do we bunker or posess?).
The biggest problem for the U.S. is just that the attack isn't reliably good at scoring goals, so we can possess and attack and still beat a bad side 1-0, and if we bunker against a top side, we are usually looking for a fluke goal. Spain was the best case scenario, but obviously that kind of game doesn't happen all that often.
Posted on 7/29/11 at 6:18 pm to Keys Open Doors
That's quite true.
Posted on 7/29/11 at 6:24 pm to Keys Open Doors
Spot on Keys. What we all want(I think)is an identity for American soccer. With the ever growing Latin influence in the country a hybrid of attacking flair and European style strength in defense would be perfect. Gernamy has this with their young Turkish influence. It would be a great model to emulate.
Posted on 7/29/11 at 6:33 pm to glassman
Yeah, I mean the German generation completely changed from their traditional prototype in the past few years.
Klinsmann and Low will get credit for this, but I bet that demographics and cultural attitudes are more responsible. Guys like Yildiray Basturk would never have played for Germany (and he would have beaten out Odonkor every day on that 2006 team), but now they are getting half the desirable German Turks (Mesut and Serdar Tasci go to Germany, Ekici and Nuri go to Turkey, for example), and integrating their playing style perfectly. I'd love for the U.S. to become a lesser version of the new German national team for the time being.
And I'd like to figure out why our defenders allow so many more counter-attacking goals when they aren't noticeably slower than the Germans (are any of them besides Lahm really fast? I don't think so).
These two guys do deserve credit for accepting the change though.
Klinsmann and Low will get credit for this, but I bet that demographics and cultural attitudes are more responsible. Guys like Yildiray Basturk would never have played for Germany (and he would have beaten out Odonkor every day on that 2006 team), but now they are getting half the desirable German Turks (Mesut and Serdar Tasci go to Germany, Ekici and Nuri go to Turkey, for example), and integrating their playing style perfectly. I'd love for the U.S. to become a lesser version of the new German national team for the time being.
And I'd like to figure out why our defenders allow so many more counter-attacking goals when they aren't noticeably slower than the Germans (are any of them besides Lahm really fast? I don't think so).
These two guys do deserve credit for accepting the change though.
Posted on 7/29/11 at 6:38 pm to Keys Open Doors
quote:
but I bet that demographics and cultural attitudes are more responsible.
Same thing is happening here. We need to embrace it and cultivate it. Immigrants and their offspring have always been the driving force of sports. It is a way out of their situation.
Posted on 7/29/11 at 6:43 pm to glassman
Sure, it's been that way since the beginning of the '80s when we started to take soccer seriously.
Unfortunately, we have lots of solid depth in some positions, but not in central defense or with a goal-scoring striker.
Unfortunately, we have lots of solid depth in some positions, but not in central defense or with a goal-scoring striker.
Posted on 7/29/11 at 6:53 pm to Keys Open Doors
quote:
Sure, it's been that way since the beginning of the '80s when we started to take soccer seriously.
My point is further than that. Boxing during the 20's was dominated by first generation Irish, Italians and Jewsish participants. Baseball was as well. First generation Turks in Germany and Latinos here are the key to success. The MLS has to be seen as a viable option to "make it".
Posted on 7/29/11 at 6:57 pm to glassman
quote:
My point is further than that. Boxing during the 20's was dominated by first generation Irish, Italians and Jewsish participants. Baseball was as well. First generation Turks in Germany and Latinos here are the key to success. The MLS has to be seen as a viable option to "make it".
Ozil is great, but how many other players on the first team are Turks? Serious question.
Are you referring to the actual players or they style of play they bring?
Posted on 7/29/11 at 7:05 pm to ohiovol
The U-17 team had 5 Turkish starters, I believe. Probably half of the Turkish national team is made up of German Turks (many of whom would at least be in the player pool for the Germans), and in the regular rotation you have Ozil and Serdar Tasci.
But it's not just Turks. You have Eastern Europeans (Marko Marin, Podolski, Klose), Africans (Boateng, Aogo), Tunisians (Khedira), and a Brazilian dancer who played on a Turkish amateur side (Cacau) who all feature prominently.
The same thing happens in France and to a lesser extent the Netherlands and Portugal, but it hasn't been pulled off nearly as well.
But it's not just Turks. You have Eastern Europeans (Marko Marin, Podolski, Klose), Africans (Boateng, Aogo), Tunisians (Khedira), and a Brazilian dancer who played on a Turkish amateur side (Cacau) who all feature prominently.
The same thing happens in France and to a lesser extent the Netherlands and Portugal, but it hasn't been pulled off nearly as well.
Posted on 7/29/11 at 7:13 pm to ohiovol
quote:
Ozil is great, but how many other players on the first team are Turks? Serious question.
Their younger teams are actually captained by Turkish immigrants. Kheidera(sp) is pretty good.
Germany will always produce Germanic talent, but they have embraced their immigrants.
Posted on 7/29/11 at 7:21 pm to glassman
quote:
Germany will always produce Germanic talent
Germans
Posted on 7/29/11 at 7:25 pm to Meursault
quote:
Klinsmann tactics v Bradley tactics
Klinsmann will have our guys attacking at every opportunity. Bradley had our guys pull up and wait for defensive re-enforcements before starting a set play.
Posted on 7/29/11 at 7:27 pm to Sheep
quote:
Germany will always produce Germanic talent
Germans
True.
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