My problem with .40 cal handguns. | TigerDroppings.com

Posted byMessage
Bulletproof Lover
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2008
975 posts

My problem with .40 cal handguns.



My problem with the .40 is that it was developed as a knee jerk to the Miami FBI shootout with Platt and Madix in the early 1986. The FBI developed an ammunition test protocol which is still in use today. Following the test in was concluded that the 10 mm subsonic was the best round for law enforcement. Back then ammunition did not perform reliably as designed when it encountered obstacles prior to striking the body. Smith and Wesson looked at the FBI's data and concluded that a shorter round could be used and this enabled the gun manufactures to base the new .40 caliber Smith and Wesson on a smaller 9mm frame but still duplicate the performance of a much larger 10 mm. subsonic. There conclusion was right, however problems did arise in that the felt recoil is much higher than a 9 mm and even greater than a .45 ACP. due to the ligher weight of the gun and the more powerful round. Also the higher pressure caused the ligher weapons greater wear than that of a 9 mm. This is an industry dirty little secret. Twenty years have passed since the dawn of the .40 cal. The ammunition manufacturers have made vast improvements in the reliability of ammunition (this is due to jacket design, cut of the hollowpoint, bonded jackests, ect). The .40 caliber no longer separates itself from 9 mm. The performance data is so close that it's a virtual wash. The increased felt recoil and the additional wear on the firearm no longer justifies the heavier bullet. The next large speration from the 9 mm is the .45 ACP or .45 GAP.






Back to top
Share:
genuineLSUtiger
LSU Fan
Asheville, NC
Member since Sep 2005
35626 posts

re: My problem with .40 cal handguns.


You also have to lead people a little too much for my liking. When the food riots break out I want pinpoint accuracy in order to preserve my food supply and limit the amount of ammo I need to expend to protect my family, home and food supply.





Back to top
  Replies (0)
coloradoBengal
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
32608 posts

re: My problem with .40 cal handguns.


Bulletproof Lover




This post was edited on 2/26 at 6:29 am


Back to top
  Replies (0)
Bulletproof Lover
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2008
975 posts

re: My problem with .40 cal handguns.


quote:

You also have to lead people a little too much for my liking. When the food riots break out I want pinpoint accuracy in order to preserve my food supply and limit the amount of ammo I need to expend to protect my family, home and food supply.


Do your parents know your already up and playing on the computer?






Back to top
bayoudude
LSU Fan
Houma
Member since Dec 2007
17000 posts

re: My problem with .40 cal handguns.


I have a .40 cal H&K USP and the recoil is more than acceptable. I also have a ruger P90 .45 ACP and the recoil is about the same but the ruger is much heavier. My wife is 5'3" and 115 lbs and doesn't have any trouble with the .40 cal.
Ballistics at the muzzle
9mm 115 gr 329 FT/LBS 1135 FPS
.40 165 GR 485 FT/LBS 1150 FPS

@50 YDS
9mm 115 gr 277 ft/lbs 1041 fps
.40 165 gr 350 ft/lbs 1040 fps

While the velocity is about the same the energy is greater in the .40 because of the larger projectile. I will take the larger energy anyday.






Back to top
LSUwag
LSU Fan
St Augustine Beach
Member since Jan 2007
6562 posts

re: My problem with .40 cal handguns.


I've carred a .40 Glock 23 as my duty weapon for 10 years. I love the gun but, I've never had to shoot anybody with it. I have always assumed that the hydrostatic shock would be greater than the .9mm therefore better stopping power against the bad guys. The recoil is OK however our female officers have issues qualifying with it.





Back to top
Alahunter
Alabama Fan
Member since Jan 2008
85613 posts

re: My problem with .40 cal handguns.


A .40 delivers more expansion into a target for a longer distance than a 9mm.







Back to top
prplhze2000
LSU Fan
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
31379 posts
 Online 

re: My problem with .40 cal handguns.


9mm is a poor round as the velocity is too high.





Back to top
Checkmateking2
LSU Fan
Paradise Island, Bahamas
Member since Aug 2008
6692 posts

re: My problem with .40 cal handguns.


The .40 is like like all compromises, instead of the best of both worlds you get the shittiest part of both.





Back to top
  Replies (0)
coloradoBengal
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
32608 posts

re: My problem with .40 cal handguns.


quote:

9mm is a poor round as the velocity is too high.


Too high for what? Sorry, that's just a stupid comment.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
ProbyOne
LSU Fan
Shreveport
Member since Dec 2004
1371 posts

re: My problem with .40 cal handguns.


quote:

9mm is a poor round as the velocity is too high.


This is exactly what makes rifles far superior to handguns.

How is velocity bad?






Back to top
biggs
LSU Fan
Crescent City
Member since Dec 2007
2237 posts

re: My problem with .40 cal handguns.


quote:

My problem with .40 cal handguns.


Is that the 1911 was designed by John M. Browning to fire 230gr's of .45acp at all those who oppose freedom, liberty, the Constitution, and God Dam America!






Back to top
prplhze2000
LSU Fan
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
31379 posts
 Online 

re: My problem with .40 cal handguns.


The 9mm passes through body too quickly without doing enough damage. In the case in Miami, he took a lethal round in the thorax from a wondernine but killed seven of the eight agents AFTER he was hit. Guys in my unit that were with the teams in Central America told me they saw whole clips of nine rounds emptied into someone and it didnt' kill him right away. I remember up here in Jackson we had a firefighter kill several others, the Ridgeland cop, Officer Gooch who was the firearms instructor, plugged him in the eye with a nine mm round from 25 yards. Did it work? Nope. bounced off his skull and just blinded him.





Back to top
RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
91617 posts

re: My problem with .40 cal handguns.


The 9mm passes through body too quickly without doing enough damage.

This is the rep. I have heard in close quarters that the 9mm does less tissue damage and passes thru the body, where the .45 does much more tissue damage. The .45 has much more stopping power. I have never even considered a .40 or 9mm as a personal protection weapon as I probably will not be shooting at burglers at more than 20 yards. I need stopping power and do not need the added velocity.






Back to top
arlo
Alabama Fan
Member since Oct 2007
12376 posts

re: My problem with .40 cal handguns.


Cool. My 357mag is keeping up. It's nice to be able to shoot cheap 38 bullets at the range, and save the higher priced 357s.

I took my ex to the range, and she was actually doing pretty well shooting the box of 38s. She decided to go alone the next day, and picked a box of 357s on the way. She went to the range, fired one round and came home. She never picked it up again.







Back to top
prplhze2000
LSU Fan
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
31379 posts
 Online 

re: My problem with .40 cal handguns.


That is why I have a .38 in my car. Heavier bullet than that 115 grain winchester silvertip.





Back to top
  Replies (0)
arlo
Alabama Fan
Member since Oct 2007
12376 posts

re: My problem with .40 cal handguns.


quote:

The 9mm passes through body too quickly without doing enough damage.


That's a function of the bullet design.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
MileHigh
Colorado State Fan
Most likely a mile high
Member since Jan 2004
7920 posts

re: My problem with .40 cal handguns.


quote:


Cool. My 357mag is keeping up. It's nice to be able to shoot cheap 38 bullets at the range, and save the higher priced 357s.


This is exactly why I purchased a .357. Best of both worlds, stopping power but cheaper ammo for practice.






Back to top
coloradoBengal
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
32608 posts

re: My problem with .40 cal handguns.


All this argument about calibre and lab performance is stupid. I've seen poorly placed 7mm Rem Mag shots leave you with a deer you have to track for over 2 miles. There's also plenty of recorded accounts of animals and soldiers not stopping when they have a limb blown completely off.

If I hit you between the eyes with a .22LR bullet, you're going down. Just ask Jim Brady. The idea that you are definitively going to stop someone, just because your bullet is slightly different size or velocity is a fool's argument.

Take whatever gun you can hit your target with every single time, and work from there. You might end up with a .22cal single action revolver or a 12gauge assault shotgun... who knows.

All the rest of this academia is pointless, unless you are talking about a specific round or weapon for specific a purpose (i.e. .45 over 9mm for knocking down steel silhouettes or 1911 over XD because of the competition mod options.)

Yes, there is some validity to the idea that the gun that does the biggest amount of damage per round against a human body type target in a self defense situation is going to stand the best chance of stopping and intruder cold. But if thats ALL we are arguing about, we'd all be shooting 12 gauge slugs.

But you after you start factoring safety, size of the weapon, cost, reload cost, recoil, skill and expertise of the shooter, multiple uses for the weapon, etc. etc. etc. You have to make compromises.

I'm sorry, with present day ballistics and all the other considerations mentioned, the .40cal doesn't win out... ever.






Back to top
arlo
Alabama Fan
Member since Oct 2007
12376 posts

re: My problem with .40 cal handguns.


Whatcha got? I've got a stainless S&W 686 and really like it. Really durable. Easy to maintain.

I got it for $190 at a pawn shop. No telling what the history is on it.






Back to top


Back to top