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Started By
Message
re: FBI goes back to the 9mm for obvious reasons
Posted on 7/11/15 at 4:09 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Posted on 7/11/15 at 4:09 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
And no 357sig was compared that day
Although the 357 sig is a great caliber....I don't believe it is cost effective for gov't use. Also, would be harder to obtain from a supply standpoint than the 9 mm.
1
Posted on 7/11/15 at 6:26 pm to X123F45
1250 doesn't do it. Read that article. The projectile has to be doing higher than 2000fps to get that effect.
quote:
C. Temporary Cavity:
The temporary cavity is caused by tissue being stretched away from the permanent cavity. If the temporary cavity is produced rapidly enough in elastic tissues, the tensile strength of the tissue can be exceeded resulting in tearing of the tissue. This effect is seen with very high velocity projectiles such as in rifle calibers, but is not seen with handgun calibers. For the temporary cavity of most handgun projectiles to have an effect on wounding, the velocity of the projectile needs to exceed roughly 2,000 fps. At the lower velocities of handgun rounds, the temporary cavity is not produced with sufficient velocity to have any wounding effect; therefore any difference in temporary cavity noted between handgun calibers is irrelevant. “In order to cause significant injuries to a structure, a pistol bullet must strike that structure directly.”2 2 DiMaio, V.J.M.: Gunshot Wounds, Elsevier Science Publishing Company, New York, NY, 1987, page 42.
Posted on 7/11/15 at 10:39 pm to Captain Rumbeard
One he says "most.
Two... In 1987 handgun rounds were a joke.
I agree with you. But there are exceptions to every rule.
Two... In 1987 handgun rounds were a joke.
I agree with you. But there are exceptions to every rule.
Posted on 7/12/15 at 7:18 am to prplhze2000
Miami
Ruger Mini-14 rifle vs 9mm handgun
FBI brought knives to a gunfight
Ruger Mini-14 rifle vs 9mm handgun
FBI brought knives to a gunfight
Posted on 7/12/15 at 8:23 am to AUTimbo
bullshite. Lethal round in chest by wondernine. Hit seven agents after that hit.
See tornes shootout in Ridgeland. 90s. Took a 9mm round in eye. Round glanced off his skull and he lived. Had killed three deputy fire chiefs that morning.
And if I remember Jeff Cooper writing way back then in Guns and Ammo about the Miami shoot out, he said the problem was the 115 grain silvertip 9 mm was not enough to get the job done but the slower, heavier .45 ammo was.
See tornes shootout in Ridgeland. 90s. Took a 9mm round in eye. Round glanced off his skull and he lived. Had killed three deputy fire chiefs that morning.
And if I remember Jeff Cooper writing way back then in Guns and Ammo about the Miami shoot out, he said the problem was the 115 grain silvertip 9 mm was not enough to get the job done but the slower, heavier .45 ammo was.
This post was edited on 7/12/15 at 10:11 am
Posted on 7/12/15 at 10:57 am to theenemy
quote:1. "cost effective" and government use" should never be used in the same sentence.
I don't believe it is cost effective for gov't use. Also, would be harder to obtain from a supply standpoint than the 9 mm.
2. The government has enough money (our money) to obtain just about anything it wants or needs.
Posted on 7/12/15 at 10:59 am to X123F45
quote:What is lateral recoil ?
I shoot +p+ 9mm rounds that have more lateral recoil than anything
Posted on 7/12/15 at 11:22 am to dawg23
You've obviously never shot your pistol sideways before.
Posted on 7/12/15 at 11:59 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Yeah, the 9 mm +p rounds are snappy and more expensive.
Posted on 7/12/15 at 12:02 pm to ctiger69
I know one guy who trains SWAT teams who doesn't use the more powerful +p rounds. Says he has better control with less powerful 9 mm rounds and shot placement means more to him than the number of grains.
This post was edited on 7/12/15 at 12:39 pm
Posted on 7/12/15 at 12:24 pm to prplhze2000
Current agents are grandfathered. They have the choice to continue using either the .40 S & W or switch to the 9mm.
LC
LC
Posted on 7/12/15 at 6:26 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:You nailed me -- dead to rights.
You've obviously never shot your pistol sideways before.
Posted on 7/14/15 at 9:58 pm to X123F45
Obviously that number moves in relation to bullet diameter and how fast you slow it down and weight, but we're not talking .75 calibers here doing those kinds of speeds. And if we were, you've still got the problem of capacity.
There's always more than one way to skin a cat, but this is an argument built around most modern pistol rounds and the projectiles they now shoot. Which are phenomenal. Game's changed.
There's always more than one way to skin a cat, but this is an argument built around most modern pistol rounds and the projectiles they now shoot. Which are phenomenal. Game's changed.
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