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Started By
Message
FBI goes back to the 9mm for obvious reasons
Posted on 7/10/15 at 3:42 pm
Posted on 7/10/15 at 3:42 pm
LINK /
I searched but didn't see this subject. And it's never too late to have a handgun caliber argument.
I searched but didn't see this subject. And it's never too late to have a handgun caliber argument.
quote:
Executive Summary of Justification for Law Enforcement Partners
· Caliber debates have existed in law enforcement for decades
· Most of what is “common knowledge” with ammunition and its effects on the human target are rooted in myth and folklore
· Projectiles are what ultimately wound our adversaries and the projectile needs to be the basis for the discussion on what “caliber” is best
· In all the major law enforcement calibers there exist projectiles which have a high likelihood of failing LEO’s in a shooting incident and there are projectiles which have a high ting incident likelihood of succeeding for LEO’s in a shooting incident
· Handgun stopping power is simply a myth
· The single most important factor in effectively wounding a human target is to have penetration to a scientifically valid depth (FBI uses 12” – 18”)
· LEO’s miss between 70 – 80 percent of the shots fired during a shooting incident
· Contemporary projectiles (since 2007) have dramatically increased the terminal effectiveness of many premium line law enforcement projectiles (emphasis on the 9mm Luger offerings)
· 9mm Luger now offers select projectiles which are, under identical testing conditions, I outperforming most of the premium line .40 S&W and .45 Auto projectiles tested by the FBI
· 9mm Luger offers higher magazine capacities, less recoil, lower cost (both in ammunition and wear on the weapons) and higher functional reliability rates (in FBI weapons)
· The majority of FBI shooters are both FASTER in shot strings fired and more ACCURATE with shooting a 9mm Luger vs shooting a .40 S&W (similar sized weapons)
· There is little to no noticeable difference in the wound tracks between premium line law Auto enforcement projectiles from 9mm Luger through the .45 Auto
· Given contemporary bullet construction, LEO’s can field (with proper bullet selection) 9mm Lugers with all of the terminal performance potential of any other law enforcement pistol caliber with none of the disadvantages present with the “larger” calibers
Posted on 7/10/15 at 3:46 pm to Captain Rumbeard
And no 357sig was compared that day
Posted on 7/10/15 at 3:48 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
bet dey shootn dem glocks doe
Posted on 7/10/15 at 4:03 pm to Crawdaddy
quote:
Special agents of the FBI HRT (Hostage Rescue Team), and regional SWAT teams are issued the Springfield Professional Model 1911A1 .45 ACP pistol
Posted on 7/10/15 at 4:12 pm to Shexter
And the Seals use 9mm which trumps swat teams and HRT any day.
Why you ask?
Faster and more accurate follow up rounds and more ammunition without having to swap mags.
Sorry but for handgun rounds, stopping power is a straight up myth. Period.
Why you ask?
Faster and more accurate follow up rounds and more ammunition without having to swap mags.
Sorry but for handgun rounds, stopping power is a straight up myth. Period.
This post was edited on 7/10/15 at 4:14 pm
Posted on 7/10/15 at 4:54 pm to Captain Rumbeard
Sounds pretty accurate.
Posted on 7/10/15 at 8:20 pm to Captain Rumbeard
quote:
And the Seals use 9mm which trumps swat teams and HRT any day.
A guy I use to work with had a good friend that was special forces. He said the special force members could basically pick their weapon system and that most had .45
Now that is mostly false bit I don't know any so...
However, 10mm > .45 >.40>9mm
Posted on 7/10/15 at 8:57 pm to Captain Rumbeard
quote:
Sorry but for handgun rounds, stopping power is a straight up myth. Period.
Yes.
And let's watch the feathers ruffle together, friend...
Posted on 7/10/15 at 9:44 pm to aVatiger
quote:
quote: Sorry but for handgun rounds, stopping power is a straight up myth. Period. Yes. And let's watch the feathers ruffle together, friend...
Ooohhh can I join too? folks act like a a 9mm double tap to the chest will just piss someone off. I don't care what you shoot, learn to shoot it straight and you will be effective.
Posted on 7/10/15 at 9:48 pm to Crawdaddy
quote::bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :usa: :usa: :usa: :usa: :usa: :usa: :usa:
Take Dat 1911
G19
Posted on 7/10/15 at 9:50 pm to TulaneUVA
quote::bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:
G19 for life
Posted on 7/11/15 at 5:09 am to bbvdd
quote:
10mm > .45 >.40>9mm
I see no problem here.
10mm is an excellent handgun round.
I'm certainly fastest with a 9mm. .45 is a close second. But, with a 10mm, I cant shoot the metal targets at our range. It has a tendency to punch through.
Posted on 7/11/15 at 1:48 pm to bbvdd
My brother was a seal and you are correct. They get whatever they want. And it honestly depends on the mission. But he'll tell you the same thing I just did and the FBI just agreed with.
Stopping power is bullshite in handguns.
Accuracy is supreme, followed by more rounds that are also accurate. If you are going to kill someone with a handgun, you have to hit something that will kill them. You aren't going to get the hydroshock of a rifle because handgun rounds aren't fast enough to cause damage to the tissue that way. They bruise it, but it survives.
So just get the idea of 'I'm going with the 45 cuz they don't make a 46' right out of your head. It's not better than the nine millimeter and in fact is worse since you don't have as many rounds in the weapon to stay in the fight with. This isn't the early 20th century anymore. We can actually prove things now.
So lets all admit that we love the 1911 not because of the superiority of the pistol to modern ones, but because that handle is just so dead on perfect in your hand. Unfortunately, 'feels' don't kill bad guys. Practice does.
Stopping power is bullshite in handguns.
Accuracy is supreme, followed by more rounds that are also accurate. If you are going to kill someone with a handgun, you have to hit something that will kill them. You aren't going to get the hydroshock of a rifle because handgun rounds aren't fast enough to cause damage to the tissue that way. They bruise it, but it survives.
So just get the idea of 'I'm going with the 45 cuz they don't make a 46' right out of your head. It's not better than the nine millimeter and in fact is worse since you don't have as many rounds in the weapon to stay in the fight with. This isn't the early 20th century anymore. We can actually prove things now.
So lets all admit that we love the 1911 not because of the superiority of the pistol to modern ones, but because that handle is just so dead on perfect in your hand. Unfortunately, 'feels' don't kill bad guys. Practice does.
This post was edited on 7/11/15 at 1:52 pm
Posted on 7/11/15 at 2:52 pm to Captain Rumbeard
quote:
You aren't going to get the hydroshock of a rifle because handgun rounds aren't fast enough to cause damage to the tissue that way. They bruise it, but it surviv
10MM
.50
.500
.44 mag...
Cough cough.
I do agree though. But anything over 1250fps is doing more than pushing tissue. We're talking 815ish mph.
I shoot +p+ 9mm rounds that have more lateral recoil than anything. Makes for some spectacular tissue damage.
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