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re: Philosophy: Do you believe in a deterministic or indeterministic universe?
Posted on 2/23/15 at 10:32 pm to rbWarEagle
Posted on 2/23/15 at 10:32 pm to rbWarEagle
quote:And yet you exercise free will everyday.
I don't believe in free will.
1
Posted on 2/23/15 at 10:34 pm to rbWarEagle
quote:I actually would like to delve into this a bit more. For some reason my interest in philosophy has really increased recently (reading Popper's work on The Logic of Scientific Discovery).
Nice, thanks for thinking about it. I'd say that you're on track to agree with me, but I've made the full commitment to no free will. Do you read any work from Daniel Dennett? If you don't want to make the same commitment I did, he might be a good source of information for you to further your base of knowledge.
My primary area of study for 10 was (still is too) psychology. This topic in particular has always been related to some of the major paradigms in my field. In particular, behaviorists tend to be very deterministic (BF Skinner) while cognitivsts tend to be more on the soft determinism side (and humanists on the free will bandwagon). This also relates to the idea of concept of cognition. Does it truly exist as something measurable (I think so); is it just a type of behavior; is there any free will to it?
Anyways, this brings up lots of interesting thoughts (caused by you), many of which seem to big and abstract for me to comprehend at times. It's fun though.
This post was edited on 2/23/15 at 10:37 pm
Posted on 2/23/15 at 10:36 pm to rbWarEagle
quote:The feeling is mutual.
I knew I liked you.
It really is an intriguing topic. In short, I couldn't go the no free will route. I guess I am more of a Compatibilist. Definitely going to check this thread out in the morning to see where it went. Have a good one.
Posted on 2/23/15 at 10:37 pm to JazzyJeff
quote:
And yet you exercise free will everyday.
No, I don't. No one does. Free will is the illusion created by our conscious experience of the world around us and the gap between it and electrochemically catalyzed neural signals.
Posted on 2/23/15 at 10:38 pm to rbWarEagle
Semi-deterministic. We have free will, but the big picture is determined by God. We choose to participate in His plan or not.
We're heading toward the new heaven/new earth.
We're heading toward the new heaven/new earth.
Posted on 2/23/15 at 10:40 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
My primary area of study for 10 was (still is too) psychology.
Mine as well.
quote:
In particular, behaviorists tend to be very deterministic (BF Skinner) while cognitivsts tend to be more on the soft determinism side (and humanists on the free will bandwagon)
Yeah, I think we will see a big change on that front with the huge growth in neuroscience.
quote:
This also relates to the idea of concept of cognition. Does it truly exist as something measurable (I think so); is it just a type of behavior; is there any free will to it?
Daniel Dennett has some great insight on consciousness. His youtube videos are fairly digestible.
Posted on 2/23/15 at 10:40 pm to La Place Mike
It likely won't go far.Posted on 2/23/15 at 10:42 pm to beejon
quote:
We have free will, but the big picture is determined by God.
The two are mutually exclusive.
Posted on 2/23/15 at 10:44 pm to rbWarEagle
quote:
The two are mutually exclusive.
I don't think so. I have the freedom to choose to participate in the plan or not.
Posted on 2/23/15 at 10:45 pm to rbWarEagle
quote:And that's psychobabble at it finest! To pretend that choice is an illusion is well...an illusion.
No, I don't. No one does. Free will is the illusion created by our conscious experience of the world around us and the gap between it and electrochemically catalyzed neural signals.
This could get circular real quick.
Posted on 2/23/15 at 10:45 pm to rbWarEagle
quote:Well I look forward to checking his stuff out. I'll check back then, but I better get to sleep before this topic keeps me up thinking.
rbWarEagle
Posted on 2/23/15 at 10:47 pm to rbWarEagle
quote:
free will
quote:
God.
quote:How so?
mutually exclusive
Posted on 2/23/15 at 10:48 pm to JazzyJeff
quote:
And that's psychobabble at it finest!
And that's an ad hominem argument at its worst. There are scientific studies (Libet, for instance) which shed light on what I referred to in my statement above. Your lack of understanding does not mean I'm wrong.
Posted on 2/23/15 at 10:49 pm to buckeye_vol
I hear ya on that.Posted on 2/23/15 at 10:49 pm to rbWarEagle
quote:
No, I don't. No one does. Free will is the illusion created by our conscious experience of the world around us and the gap between it and electrochemically catalyzed neural signals.
Determinism by DNA?
Posted on 2/23/15 at 10:50 pm to JazzyJeff
quote:
How so?
Again, you misunderstand. He said God determined the big picture, but that we have free will. That is impossible. It is either one or the other.
Posted on 2/23/15 at 10:51 pm to beejon
quote:
Determinism by DNA?
DNA, epigenetic influence, environment, socio-eco-political structure, time period, geographical landscape, etc.
Posted on 2/23/15 at 10:53 pm to rbWarEagle
quote:
Again, you misunderstand. He said God determined the big picture, but that we have free will. That is impossible. It is either one or the other.
Why would one freely choosing to participate in a plan be contrary to God's plan being deterministic or not?
Posted on 2/23/15 at 10:55 pm to beejon
quote:
Why would one freely choosing to participate in a plan be contrary to God's plan being deterministic or not?
If the plan is in a deterministic universe, you are not freely participating. You'd be better off (philosophically speaking) aligning yourself with indeterminism.
Posted on 2/23/15 at 10:56 pm to rbWarEagle
God can control the picture without taking away our free will. It all depends on how you define, "controlling the picture."
Reality TV stars make their own choices (or determinism does), but the producers can definitely set the general direction of the show by pulling the right strings.
For the record, the free will vs. pre-destination is a fascinating argument among theologians. Philosopers Thomas Aquinas and Augustine of Hippo have HUGE disagreements on how to settle it. If you are really interested in learning how those two can go together, there is a talk by a pretty respected theologian/philosophy professor at Boston College I can post that would be worth your time.
Let me know if you would listen to it.
Reality TV stars make their own choices (or determinism does), but the producers can definitely set the general direction of the show by pulling the right strings.
For the record, the free will vs. pre-destination is a fascinating argument among theologians. Philosopers Thomas Aquinas and Augustine of Hippo have HUGE disagreements on how to settle it. If you are really interested in learning how those two can go together, there is a talk by a pretty respected theologian/philosophy professor at Boston College I can post that would be worth your time.
Let me know if you would listen to it.
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