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Message
Official intermittent fasting thread
Posted on 3/8/16 at 4:04 pm
Posted on 3/8/16 at 4:04 pm
OK, So there have been a lot of questions on Intermittent fasting and how it works so I figured I would make a thread showing the different programs and how they work. Please fire away on any questions you may have and I will try and do my best to answer them. And I know TLDR
Quick overview of a few of the programs I talk about here
LINK
You can find any documents listed in this post in my google drive including the complete programs LINK
LINK
LINK
1) What is Intermittent Fasting?
IF is simply a pattern where you go long periods without eating, combined with short periods of eating.
2) Why should I do intermittent fasting?
IF has shown to have tons of health benefits which can be found with a simple Google search. But IF also has shown the ability to increase fat loss and also helps curb hunger. The leangains website will be able to answer almost every question you have on the benefits of IF.
3) Who should do IF?
Anybody can do IF no matter if you are bulking or cutting. It seems to work better when cutting. I recommend somebody switch to IF if they have problems sticking to a so called normal diet or if they prefer to eat larger meals over smaller meals.
4) Will you lose muscle if you do IF?
No check the lean gains website for the studies. You can fast up to 36 hours before you start to burn muscle.
Below is the basic nutrition triangle that every popular IF protocol believes in
1) As you can see overall calories in the most important part of IF whether you are trying to lose fat or gain muscle.
2) The second most important would be your overall macro ratios, not quality just overall ratios.
3) Would be the micronutrients i.e. the quality of the macros you are taking in.
4) Would be meal timing and frequency. Meal timing would be referring to the carb cycling and carb back loading protocols built into some of the IF protocols.
5) Would be supplements. Very inconsequential, but certain ones like caffeine based fat burners and ephedra can be useful to help burn fat and stop hunger pains. Proteins can be helpful to reach your macros conveniently. Creatine and BCAAs can be helpful to help strength and lean muscle gains. Insulin mimickers or Glucose disposal agents can also be helpful for protocols that call for carb cycling and carb back loading. But overall these supplements are going to have a very very minimal effect on overall progress.
Quick overview of a few of the programs I talk about here
LINK
You can find any documents listed in this post in my google drive including the complete programs LINK
LINK
LINK
1) What is Intermittent Fasting?
IF is simply a pattern where you go long periods without eating, combined with short periods of eating.
2) Why should I do intermittent fasting?
IF has shown to have tons of health benefits which can be found with a simple Google search. But IF also has shown the ability to increase fat loss and also helps curb hunger. The leangains website will be able to answer almost every question you have on the benefits of IF.
3) Who should do IF?
Anybody can do IF no matter if you are bulking or cutting. It seems to work better when cutting. I recommend somebody switch to IF if they have problems sticking to a so called normal diet or if they prefer to eat larger meals over smaller meals.
4) Will you lose muscle if you do IF?
No check the lean gains website for the studies. You can fast up to 36 hours before you start to burn muscle.
Below is the basic nutrition triangle that every popular IF protocol believes in
1) As you can see overall calories in the most important part of IF whether you are trying to lose fat or gain muscle.
2) The second most important would be your overall macro ratios, not quality just overall ratios.
3) Would be the micronutrients i.e. the quality of the macros you are taking in.
4) Would be meal timing and frequency. Meal timing would be referring to the carb cycling and carb back loading protocols built into some of the IF protocols.
5) Would be supplements. Very inconsequential, but certain ones like caffeine based fat burners and ephedra can be useful to help burn fat and stop hunger pains. Proteins can be helpful to reach your macros conveniently. Creatine and BCAAs can be helpful to help strength and lean muscle gains. Insulin mimickers or Glucose disposal agents can also be helpful for protocols that call for carb cycling and carb back loading. But overall these supplements are going to have a very very minimal effect on overall progress.
17
Posted on 3/8/16 at 4:05 pm to lsu777
THE 16 Hour Fast/ 8 Hour Eating Window Programs
LeanGains
This is the most popular and well known Intermittent Fasting protocol but also the most misunderstood. People assume that if you are doing the 16/8 protocol that you are automatically doing lean gains. This is anything but true. LG was created by Martin Berkhan and popularized through his website Leangains.com. Martin was supposed to release a book, but never did, but did release tons of free information on the LG website and walked people through his programs.
He has programs for aggressive fat loss, slow fat loss, recomp, and weight gain which he used to determine overall calories needed. Below are the ratios with each representing the percentage below each individual’s TDEE.
1) Aggressive Fat loss was -30% on rest days/-10% on lift days
2) Fat loss was -20% / 0%
3) Recomp was -20% / +20%
4) Recomp #2 was -10% / +10%
5) Weight gain has multiple programs 0% / 20% or -20%/40% or +10%/+30%
The program he chose was based on bodyfat percentage. Above 15-18% aggressive fat loss could be used for a while without muscle loss. After an individual reached 12% bodyfat the basic fat loss program was used. The weight gain percentages were used in similar fashion. Everything was tracked and adjusted based off of measurements, weight gain and strength.
What sets Martin’s Leangains program apart from the other 16/8 protocols was his use of carb cycling and carb back loading. He has different set up based on when you lift, He used the following as his two most common approaches
Lift days
• Protein was high. There are different opinions about what he had his clients do. He mentioned that he had them on 3.1g per kg of lean body mass but former clients and his leaked documents suggest he started them out lower and adjusted based on feedback. Overall the calculators show he started them at 45% and adjusting all the way up to 55% of overall calories.
• Carbs- Carbs range from 35% up to 40% depending on how each person reacts to the carbs. Martin says eat a small amount of carbs pre workout (50g or so) and try and have the rest post workout
• Fats- make up the rest of the calories.
Rest days
• Protein- remained high and everything pointed to him setting the ratio at 55% of cals. This can be adjusted up to 68% if you find you like tons of protein and it helps keeps you satisfied. Remember this is the lower calorie days overall so macros will be down.
• Carbs- Set somewhere between 5% and 20%. This is going to be individual based. Try both ways and in between for a few weeks and see what fits you best. You want to try and have your carbs during the first meal of the day on these days if possible. I will explain why later.
• Fats- make up the remainder. But usually is going to be between 25% up to 38%.
Leangains Setup for morning lifters
• Lift Days-3 or 4 days
o If you lift in the morning you would get up and lift, have 10g BCAAs before lifting and 10g during.
o No cardio if lifting in the morning, period. None. If you want to burn extra calories try and get in 5k steps before breaking your fast. 10k overall for the day.
o Have first meal around 12 which would be the largest and contain pretty much all your carbs
o Spread the rest of your calories/macros up however you would like so long as you are done eating within 8 hours of breaking the fast. For most people this would mean eating dinner with the family sticking to meat/veggies as much as possible and then having a protein shake from casein at 8pm or cottage cheese at 8pm.
• Rest days-3 or 4 days
o Morning walk upon waking. Trying to get a total of 60 min per day in first thing in the morning.
o Try and get an additional 5k steps in before breaking the fast
o Break fast around noon with the largest meal with pretty much all carbs during this meal.
o Additional meals at dinner and 8pm as outlined above.
Leangains Setup for afternoon lifters
• Lift Days- 3 or 4 days
o 45 min walk in the morning while fasted.
o Additional 5k steps before breaking the fast
o Break fast around noon with small protein/fat meal.
o Lift 5-6
o Metabolic conditioning is allowed here. Either in circuit fashion with weights or some form of true HiiT. NO MORE THAN 10 MIN TOTAL.
o Eat meal with family post workout containing all carbs for the day or at least 80%
o Have protein shake or some form of slow digesting carbs at 8pm.
• Rest days-3 or 4 days
o Fasted morning walk
o Try and get an additional 5k steps in before breaking the fast
o Break fast around noon with the largest meal with pretty much all carbs during this meal.
o Additional meals at dinner and 8pm
Training on lean gains
• For New lifters Martin suggested maybe trying starting strength. A better approach is using the Greyskull LP due to the setup.
• For intermediate/advanced lifters Martin says use Reverse Pyramid training. Concentration should be on Overhead press, Incline Press, Weighted Chins, Squats and deadlifts according to Martin. There are tons of templates of RPT out there; Google is your friend on this one.
• 5/3/1 also works nicely here, especially when on a bulk.
• For metabolic training the Greyskull approved workouts are perfect for this, so is sprints, so is HiiT on a rowing machine or air dyne bike or any form of Tabata.
Tips
• Do not sweat the small stuff. Just try and stick to the guidelines. No big deal if everything isn’t timed perfectly. Again look at the above triangle.
• Carbs on rest days are eaten early to allow better fat burning the next day. Same goes for lift days for those that lift early. Insulin mimickers/GDA supplements work well during and after the carb meals to help reduce muscle glycogen quicker.
• Do not over do the Cardio
• Do not go below a 40% deficit.
• Eat as clean as you want. The cleaner you eat, the faster the results, but again that is #3 in the hierarchy of the triangle. So don’t sweat it if you want some nuttella or chicken fries like rocket loves to eat. It’s all about the triangle. Want ice cream, have at it, just try to stay within the other rules of carb timing and the eating/fasting window.
Excel Calculators are in the drive folder. Also you can use
LINK
LINK
LeanGains
This is the most popular and well known Intermittent Fasting protocol but also the most misunderstood. People assume that if you are doing the 16/8 protocol that you are automatically doing lean gains. This is anything but true. LG was created by Martin Berkhan and popularized through his website Leangains.com. Martin was supposed to release a book, but never did, but did release tons of free information on the LG website and walked people through his programs.
He has programs for aggressive fat loss, slow fat loss, recomp, and weight gain which he used to determine overall calories needed. Below are the ratios with each representing the percentage below each individual’s TDEE.
1) Aggressive Fat loss was -30% on rest days/-10% on lift days
2) Fat loss was -20% / 0%
3) Recomp was -20% / +20%
4) Recomp #2 was -10% / +10%
5) Weight gain has multiple programs 0% / 20% or -20%/40% or +10%/+30%
The program he chose was based on bodyfat percentage. Above 15-18% aggressive fat loss could be used for a while without muscle loss. After an individual reached 12% bodyfat the basic fat loss program was used. The weight gain percentages were used in similar fashion. Everything was tracked and adjusted based off of measurements, weight gain and strength.
What sets Martin’s Leangains program apart from the other 16/8 protocols was his use of carb cycling and carb back loading. He has different set up based on when you lift, He used the following as his two most common approaches
Lift days
• Protein was high. There are different opinions about what he had his clients do. He mentioned that he had them on 3.1g per kg of lean body mass but former clients and his leaked documents suggest he started them out lower and adjusted based on feedback. Overall the calculators show he started them at 45% and adjusting all the way up to 55% of overall calories.
• Carbs- Carbs range from 35% up to 40% depending on how each person reacts to the carbs. Martin says eat a small amount of carbs pre workout (50g or so) and try and have the rest post workout
• Fats- make up the rest of the calories.
Rest days
• Protein- remained high and everything pointed to him setting the ratio at 55% of cals. This can be adjusted up to 68% if you find you like tons of protein and it helps keeps you satisfied. Remember this is the lower calorie days overall so macros will be down.
• Carbs- Set somewhere between 5% and 20%. This is going to be individual based. Try both ways and in between for a few weeks and see what fits you best. You want to try and have your carbs during the first meal of the day on these days if possible. I will explain why later.
• Fats- make up the remainder. But usually is going to be between 25% up to 38%.
Leangains Setup for morning lifters
• Lift Days-3 or 4 days
o If you lift in the morning you would get up and lift, have 10g BCAAs before lifting and 10g during.
o No cardio if lifting in the morning, period. None. If you want to burn extra calories try and get in 5k steps before breaking your fast. 10k overall for the day.
o Have first meal around 12 which would be the largest and contain pretty much all your carbs
o Spread the rest of your calories/macros up however you would like so long as you are done eating within 8 hours of breaking the fast. For most people this would mean eating dinner with the family sticking to meat/veggies as much as possible and then having a protein shake from casein at 8pm or cottage cheese at 8pm.
• Rest days-3 or 4 days
o Morning walk upon waking. Trying to get a total of 60 min per day in first thing in the morning.
o Try and get an additional 5k steps in before breaking the fast
o Break fast around noon with the largest meal with pretty much all carbs during this meal.
o Additional meals at dinner and 8pm as outlined above.
Leangains Setup for afternoon lifters
• Lift Days- 3 or 4 days
o 45 min walk in the morning while fasted.
o Additional 5k steps before breaking the fast
o Break fast around noon with small protein/fat meal.
o Lift 5-6
o Metabolic conditioning is allowed here. Either in circuit fashion with weights or some form of true HiiT. NO MORE THAN 10 MIN TOTAL.
o Eat meal with family post workout containing all carbs for the day or at least 80%
o Have protein shake or some form of slow digesting carbs at 8pm.
• Rest days-3 or 4 days
o Fasted morning walk
o Try and get an additional 5k steps in before breaking the fast
o Break fast around noon with the largest meal with pretty much all carbs during this meal.
o Additional meals at dinner and 8pm
Training on lean gains
• For New lifters Martin suggested maybe trying starting strength. A better approach is using the Greyskull LP due to the setup.
• For intermediate/advanced lifters Martin says use Reverse Pyramid training. Concentration should be on Overhead press, Incline Press, Weighted Chins, Squats and deadlifts according to Martin. There are tons of templates of RPT out there; Google is your friend on this one.
• 5/3/1 also works nicely here, especially when on a bulk.
• For metabolic training the Greyskull approved workouts are perfect for this, so is sprints, so is HiiT on a rowing machine or air dyne bike or any form of Tabata.
Tips
• Do not sweat the small stuff. Just try and stick to the guidelines. No big deal if everything isn’t timed perfectly. Again look at the above triangle.
• Carbs on rest days are eaten early to allow better fat burning the next day. Same goes for lift days for those that lift early. Insulin mimickers/GDA supplements work well during and after the carb meals to help reduce muscle glycogen quicker.
• Do not over do the Cardio
• Do not go below a 40% deficit.
• Eat as clean as you want. The cleaner you eat, the faster the results, but again that is #3 in the hierarchy of the triangle. So don’t sweat it if you want some nuttella or chicken fries like rocket loves to eat. It’s all about the triangle. Want ice cream, have at it, just try to stay within the other rules of carb timing and the eating/fasting window.
Excel Calculators are in the drive folder. Also you can use
LINK
LINK
Posted on 3/8/16 at 4:05 pm to lsu777
Haven't had a meal since Saturday.
Feel great.
Feel great.
Posted on 3/8/16 at 4:05 pm to lsu777
16/8 Using IIFYM
IIFYM Calculator
This one is simple and what most people mistake as lean gains. It’s simple really; use the calculator above to determine your total calorie intake and the macros. Eat them in an 8 hour window. Everything else you choose what you want to do. Want to do cardio, go ahead. Want to use a bodybuilding split, have at it. It’s totally up to you, just hit your macros daily (or within 5%) and be done with it. No carb cycling, no carb timing and no other restrictions.
IMO the above lifting guidelines should still apply. As those programs work best with a IF style diet, but again it’s up to you.
Kinobody Programs Kinobody
Kinobody is a set of programs created by Greg Gallagher. Technically it is not a 16/8 IF program but its close enough. He has a few simple guidelines that he recommends and his programs are much less restrictive than leangains and are laid out in a simple to follow guides. He is also a huge believer in not spending tons of time in the gym.
All of the programs are in my google drive folder linked above.
Honestly for most on this board, they would be better off following Greg’s programs than anybody else’s because he provides the blueprint to the body most on here are looking for. Let’s get one thing straight, Greg is a complete douchebag IMO and most of his work is not originally his and he is mainly making a buck off of Martins back. But the guy has created some great programs that are really really easy to follow and allows people to get amazing results and honestly that’s all you can ask for.
Eat Stop Eat by Brad Pilon
Program is pretty simple and the details can be found in the book in my google drive. Jist of the program is though, twice a week you perform a 24 hour fast. Essentially this allows you to keep below your weekly allotment of calories. The nutrition triangle above is still in play.
The Warrior Diet
Program is simple and the book is in the drive. You graze very lightly during the day or fast completely if possible and eat one extremely large meal at night. Goal is to do 20-22 hours fasting and 2-4 hours eating. The large meal can be hard on some people so some break it up into 2-3 meals over a 4 hour period. Again pay attention to the nutrition triangle.
Fat Loss Forever
Program by John Romaniello and is linked in the drive. Combines the best parts of the other IF programs into one. Can be kind of complicated but it is perfect for gym rats who love large cheat days. The seven day cycle is split using different fasting protocols with one all out cheat day a week followed by a full 36 hour fast.
Other programs to maybe try and research
• Alternate Day Fasting
• 5:2 Diet
• Rapid Fat loss Handbook using a 20/4 IF protocol (book in google drive)
• Using Paleo or Keto diet with IF protocols
IIFYM Calculator
This one is simple and what most people mistake as lean gains. It’s simple really; use the calculator above to determine your total calorie intake and the macros. Eat them in an 8 hour window. Everything else you choose what you want to do. Want to do cardio, go ahead. Want to use a bodybuilding split, have at it. It’s totally up to you, just hit your macros daily (or within 5%) and be done with it. No carb cycling, no carb timing and no other restrictions.
IMO the above lifting guidelines should still apply. As those programs work best with a IF style diet, but again it’s up to you.
Kinobody Programs Kinobody
Kinobody is a set of programs created by Greg Gallagher. Technically it is not a 16/8 IF program but its close enough. He has a few simple guidelines that he recommends and his programs are much less restrictive than leangains and are laid out in a simple to follow guides. He is also a huge believer in not spending tons of time in the gym.
All of the programs are in my google drive folder linked above.
Honestly for most on this board, they would be better off following Greg’s programs than anybody else’s because he provides the blueprint to the body most on here are looking for. Let’s get one thing straight, Greg is a complete douchebag IMO and most of his work is not originally his and he is mainly making a buck off of Martins back. But the guy has created some great programs that are really really easy to follow and allows people to get amazing results and honestly that’s all you can ask for.
Eat Stop Eat by Brad Pilon
Program is pretty simple and the details can be found in the book in my google drive. Jist of the program is though, twice a week you perform a 24 hour fast. Essentially this allows you to keep below your weekly allotment of calories. The nutrition triangle above is still in play.
The Warrior Diet
Program is simple and the book is in the drive. You graze very lightly during the day or fast completely if possible and eat one extremely large meal at night. Goal is to do 20-22 hours fasting and 2-4 hours eating. The large meal can be hard on some people so some break it up into 2-3 meals over a 4 hour period. Again pay attention to the nutrition triangle.
Fat Loss Forever
Program by John Romaniello and is linked in the drive. Combines the best parts of the other IF programs into one. Can be kind of complicated but it is perfect for gym rats who love large cheat days. The seven day cycle is split using different fasting protocols with one all out cheat day a week followed by a full 36 hour fast.
Other programs to maybe try and research
• Alternate Day Fasting
• 5:2 Diet
• Rapid Fat loss Handbook using a 20/4 IF protocol (book in google drive)
• Using Paleo or Keto diet with IF protocols
Posted on 3/8/16 at 4:06 pm to CBandits82
little long there brother. its called intermittent, not fricking starving. 
Troll on though
Troll on though
Posted on 3/8/16 at 4:07 pm to lsu777
I tried it. Made me too light headed.
It's by no means the only or best way to lose weight. Just eat less calories than you burn.
It's by no means the only or best way to lose weight. Just eat less calories than you burn.
Posted on 3/8/16 at 4:09 pm to lsu777
Lean Gains FTW
Posted on 3/8/16 at 4:11 pm to StringedInstruments
quote:
I tried it. Made me too light headed.
It's by no means the only or best way to lose weight. Just eat less calories than you burn.
Well...You don't fricking say. No shite its all about calories, did you read a single thing I wrote? well...no you didn't, just ran your mouth.
That's the beauty of IF, it makes it easier to stay within calorie limits.
And how long did you try it? Of course the first 2 or 3 days are rough, all diets are.
Honestly though IF isn't for everyone, in fact many women can't handle it at all, guess that was your problem.
Posted on 3/8/16 at 4:11 pm to lsu777
quote:
little long there brother. its called intermittent, not fricking starving.
2.5 days is the longest you can go and still reap the benefits.
I'll eat again tonight and eat normal through Friday.
I won't eat Saturday and Sunday but start to eat again Monday.
Posted on 3/8/16 at 4:12 pm to CBandits82
After weeks of 2.5 days per cycle of no eating you can start doing 3 days, but that is the max.
This post was edited on 3/8/16 at 4:13 pm
Posted on 3/8/16 at 4:13 pm to CBandits82
I'm going to guess this doesn't work for distance runners?
Posted on 3/8/16 at 4:14 pm to CBandits82
I thought you were just trolling. Carry on. Do you find once you reach 16 to 18 hours its pretty much a breeze after that?
Posted on 3/8/16 at 4:15 pm to Ingeniero
quote:
I'm going to guess this doesn't work for distance runners?
Well its designed for pretty the opposite, those looking to use weights to get in amazing shape and not workout anymore than they have too. So no I would not recommend IF for an endurance runner at all.
Posted on 3/8/16 at 4:17 pm to lsu777
My goal is to eventually get to Intermittent Eating, where fasting is the norm and eating is what you do only occasionally.
Posted on 3/8/16 at 4:18 pm to lsu777
BTW on the linked drive I have Martins guide to drinking alcohol and still lose weight.
also in the john Ramaniello folder I have some articles on how to handle nights were you go out partying, binge drinking and end up binge eating while drunk. Essentially he says to look at it as a huge cheat day and perform a 36 hour fast and get back on track.
I know you South Louisiana Alcoholics can't due without the partying and drinking so figured I would put the articles in there to show you how to still lose weight.
also in the john Ramaniello folder I have some articles on how to handle nights were you go out partying, binge drinking and end up binge eating while drunk. Essentially he says to look at it as a huge cheat day and perform a 36 hour fast and get back on track.
I know you South Louisiana Alcoholics can't due without the partying and drinking so figured I would put the articles in there to show you how to still lose weight.
Posted on 3/8/16 at 4:19 pm to CBandits82
quote:
My goal is to eventually get to Intermittent Eating, where fasting is the norm and eating is what you do only occasionally.
Are you looking to get the health benefits or do you just have a ton of weight to lose? I ask because that is not going to be the best way for body recomp, but the health benefits should be off the charts.
Posted on 3/8/16 at 4:21 pm to StringedInstruments
quote:You don't get the benefits from eating like you would if you fast some. Fasting is good and there is research that shows it. Fasting enhances growth hormone secretion and amplifies the complex rhythms of growth hormone secretion in man. In this study it showed a boost of 2,000% or 20x increase of growth hormone.
It's by no means the only or best way to lose weight. Just eat less calories than you burn.
Also if you are feeling bad when fasting, you are probably going in withdrawal from some of the foods you are used to eating. I know cutting out sugar www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2235907/, leads to headaches and other minor symptoms.
This post was edited on 3/8/16 at 4:24 pm
Posted on 3/8/16 at 4:22 pm to CBandits82
OP sounds grouchy.
Prolly needs a snickers.
Prolly needs a snickers.
Posted on 3/8/16 at 4:23 pm to lsu777
quote:
BTW on the linked drive I have Martins guide to drinking alcohol and still lose
Is this really possible?
Posted on 3/8/16 at 4:25 pm to DawgGONIT
quote:
You don't get the benefits from eating like you would if you fast some. Fasting is good and there is research that shows it. Fasting enhances growth hormone secretion and amplifies the complex rhythms of growth hormone secretion in man. In this study it showed a boost of 2,000% or 20x increase of growth hormone.
Also if you are feeling bad when fasting, you are probably going in withdrawal from some of the foods you are used to eating. I know cutting out sugar, leads to headaches and other minor symptoms.
yea light headedness is a direct result of fluctuating blood sugar which is a result of being addicted to simple sugars or it is a result of being addicted to soda/caffeine and like you said your body is going through a full drug like withdraw.
and you are 100% correct in that Fasting protocols have a ton of health benefits that you can not get from just restricting calories, including longer life spans.
This post was edited on 3/8/16 at 4:29 pm
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