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re: Merging lanes...which driver are you?

Posted on 3/23/16 at 8:30 am to
Posted by UpToPar
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2008
22153 posts
Posted on 3/23/16 at 8:30 am to
I'm fine with the zipper merge idea (even though that's not how it works out), but I despise the people that are in the continuing lane of traffic, see that the merging lane is open and get into that lane just to get in front of other cars. These are the people that are causing the traffic. This is common on I-10 east bound right after the Williams exit in Kenner.
Posted by AlxTgr
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
81616 posts
Posted on 3/23/16 at 8:34 am to
quote:

Waiting until the very end causes a single point of "merge". You have one opportunity to get in. If there is an a-hole who doesn't leave you enough space, or you miss your chance for some reason, everyone has to hit their brakes to let you in. You just caused a traffic jam. Thinking that somehow utilizing two lanes as long as possible "helps" traffic is stupid.


quote:

You can preach all day about a zipper merge, but you know for a fact that they do not ever work out that way in real life. Merge when you are up to speed and have the opportunity. I'm not saying that has to be right away, and sometimes it will be at the very end, but assuming that you should stay in the lane until the very end will cause problems if there is traffic. There is no doubt about it.
Posted by say when
Member since Mar 2015
1613 posts
Posted on 3/23/16 at 8:40 am to
quote:

No it doesn't. Everyone would move through the merge faster if they used both lanes up until the merge.


Dumbass
Posted by LSUengr
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2005
2332 posts
Posted on 3/23/16 at 8:48 am to
Zipper merging around here doesn't work because of people who have some preconceived notion that it isn't better. They get all offended that they early merged and someone else is getting ahead of them. If people wouldn't make it a competition, it would work. It works in other developed countries, and as stated multiple times in multiple studies it is generally 15% more efficient. Many places even use electronic message boards to inform drivers when early merging is better based on current roadway speeds. As a civil engineer who actually understands traffic, I get in the shortest lane when merging speeds are low to use as much of the roadway capacity as possible. Usually, some idiot tries to block me from merging. However, when push comes to shove, 100% of the time they end up stopping because their vehicle is nicer than mine and they don' want it damaged.
Posted by KG6
Member since Aug 2009
10920 posts
Posted on 3/23/16 at 8:51 am to
Zipper merge likely works for exits/ramps designed for it. Here in Texas, there are plenty of ramps where you have one chance to get in. And they don't seem to cause major issues. I'd consider that a zipper merge I guess. Where the issue lies is when you have a long merge lane and ample opportunity to get over that you pass up just to be first in line. That point is backed up and bumper to bumper. You will cause someone to go out of their way to let you in and make traffic worse. Whereas if you get in when there is a legit opportunity, traffic can flow.
Posted by KG6
Member since Aug 2009
10920 posts
Posted on 3/23/16 at 8:51 am to
DP
This post was edited on 3/23/16 at 9:05 am
Posted by LSUengr
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2005
2332 posts
Posted on 3/23/16 at 9:01 am to
That is exactly the point, traffic would move more efficiently, 15% as general rule if drivers approached the merge and got in the shortest line. Then one lane wouldn't back up further than the other and no one would feel like someone is trying to get to the front of the line. Again this is talking about a merge where the traffic has slowed considerably below the speed limit. You will say, well it got backed up because people had to merge. That is wrong. It backed up because the roadway reached highway capacity. At that point early merging becomes inefficient and zipper merging becomes the more efficient way to move traffic.

For someone who really wants an interesting read on the psychology of traffic, Traffic: Why we drive the way we do and what is says about us by Tom Vanderbilt is a very intriguing read.
Posted by AlxTgr
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
81616 posts
Posted on 3/23/16 at 9:05 am to
quote:

Zipper merge likely works for exits/ramps designed for it.
quote:

Where the issue lies is when you have a long merge lane and ample opportunity to get over that you pass up just to be first in line. That point is backed up and bumper to bumper. You will cause someone to go out of their way to let you in and make traffic worse.
This.
Posted by LouisianaLady
Member since Mar 2009
81192 posts
Posted on 3/23/16 at 9:08 am to
quote:

Are you the driver that sits in the lane that everyone merges into?


This one. Yes, it is okay for people to merge at the proper point, but people are generally fricking stupid so I tend to drive in the lane I know I will need to be in. The example that comes to mind is on College when it merges into one lane once you pass over Perkins. I am always in the left lane.

There are exceptions to my "drive in the lane you want to be in" rule, but those aren't related to merging. For example, I need to eventually be in the left lane when I'm going down Acadian (from downtown towards Southdowns).. but I ride in the right because everyone in the left lane will be getting on the interstate, so I can hop over when they're all turning left onto the interstate.

EDIT: Another thing I realized recently. When I am entering the interstate during stop-and-go traffic (mornings and after work), I jump over onto the interstate from the entrance ramp the second I see an opening. Basically, I'll cross the paint. But I notice a lot of people wait until the entrance lane/merge completely ends and force cars to stop and let them in when they could have easily hopped in earlier.

People don't drive assertively enough.
This post was edited on 3/23/16 at 9:11 am
Posted by KG6
Member since Aug 2009
10920 posts
Posted on 3/23/16 at 9:11 am to
You say you merge late to use as much of the usable highway capacity, but would this not try to shove more cars into a tight spot at one time? I agree that once the traffic starts, it's difficult to stop and getting in early doesn't really "help", but if everyone were smart and got over as soon as signs indicated that a lane was closed, then they could possible get into the proper lane while still at speed with ample gaps to do so. If everyone did this, then 3 lanes could turn into 2 lanes before it was "too late" and keep speed. This would also work "at the last second" if there was always an available gap to merge. But 1 single incident where someone could not get in, will cause a backup since the car in the ending lane will be at near 0 speed due to running out of lane. If he would have started the process a mile back, he has a much greater chance at getting over.
Posted by LSUBoo
Knoxville, TN
Member since Mar 2006
101917 posts
Posted on 3/23/16 at 9:12 am to
quote:

The example that comes to mind is on College when it merges into one lane once you pass over Perkins. I am always in the left lane.


That's basically the perfect example of where a zipper merge would be the best way to do things, so as many people as possible could cross Perkins before the light changes.
Posted by NYNolaguy1
Member since May 2011
20885 posts
Posted on 3/23/16 at 9:34 am to
There's a spot close to my inlaws where two lanes each way merges into one each way- the right merges into the left in each direction. I always get in the left lane and make it the responsibility of the driver merging in the right lane to move around me.

If they run out of room before merging, it's their fault- they'll be the jackass with the left blinker on waiting for traffic to pass rather than getting over beforehand.
Posted by AlxTgr
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
81616 posts
Posted on 3/23/16 at 9:38 am to
quote:

before the light changes.

A light changes everything.
Posted by LSUengr
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2005
2332 posts
Posted on 3/23/16 at 9:40 am to
Again, the merge is not what is causing the slow down in speed and for the lane to become halted. Highway capacity is doing that. Think of an open interstate with no merges. Why doesn't it always flow at 65 mph? Because of highway capacity. Once the amount of cars on the roadway approaches and goes over highway capacity, the speed is going to slow considerably no matter what you do. Same concept with the merge lane. Once highway capacity is reached and the merge slows, zipper merging is more efficient. Early merging is better when traffic is flowing at freeflow speed. That is why some places have signs that tell people when to early merge or when to zipper. It takes their feelings out of the discussion. When someone tells everyone which way is better, it makes it a community decision instead of feeling like someone is trying to get ahead of them.
Posted by DownshiftAndFloorIt
Here
Member since Jan 2011
66763 posts
Posted on 3/23/16 at 9:41 am to
Did y'all miss the "when you need it" part?

I drive in Nola every day and merging pisses me off. Nola people love to stop at the beginning of the merge and wait for somebody else to stop and let them over causing a massive cluster frick.
Posted by LSUengr
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2005
2332 posts
Posted on 3/23/16 at 9:43 am to
Minnesota, by the way, is one example in the States of where electronic signage is used to instruct when to late merge versus early merge.

Minnesota Merging
Posted by LSUengr
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2005
2332 posts
Posted on 3/23/16 at 9:48 am to
Main takeaways from the Minnesota DOT policy for those who don't want to read the whole thing (TL;DR):

“Benefits”
We have witnessed 3 primary safety and operational improvements whenever the Zipper System has been deployed.
These improvements were found regardless of whether the system had computerized detection with automated
warning signing or the motorist had to determine whether it was time to “use both lanes” because of a traffic backup.
1) By creating two full lanes of traffic, we reduce the difference in speeds between the two lanes. Therefore,
vehicles generally do not have a reason to switch lanes, and if they do decide to switch, then the traffic is
traveling approximately the same speed in both lanes making the maneuver is much easier and safer.
2) We reduce the overall length of the backup by up to 50% (40% is common). While this may not be important
in rural areas, it is critical in the metro area where the backups affect other interchanges. Therefore, we
reduce the congestion problem for the other interchanges.
3) When both lanes are moving slowly, then everyone is “equally” disadvantaged by the backup and while the
driver may not be happy, they have no reason to be mad at a fellow driver in the backup. Therefore, “Road
Rage” is reduced significantly.
“Misconceptions”
Although motorists seem to believe that a single lane of traffic flowing into a work zone should flow through
unrestricted and much faster without a slow down for merging traffic, this just does not happen in the real world of
traffic hazards. Motorists slow down because of the uncertainty of the drivers’ actions ahead, poor visibility beyond,
signs/drums/barricades and concrete barriers, unexpected temporary curves, construction equipment, and workers
nearby. That slows down the rest of the line of traffic and the longer the queue (line of traffic) the more it slows
down and a longer time before it regains speed. When traffic is heavy, a perfect line of drivers cruising through the
work zone at safe highway speeds and spacing with no delay, is impossible to maintain.
During our previous experience with the late merge system, we have collected and processed data on whether the
system improves (or not) the motorist’s travel time through the work zone. Our analysis has shown that the Zipper
System has no effect on travel time through the work zone. Unfortunately, the motorist’s travel time through a work
zone appears to remain approximately the same regardless of whether the zipper was used or not. However, the
zipper system produces a much safer merge situation and the length of the queue is much less.
Posted by KG6
Member since Aug 2009
10920 posts
Posted on 3/23/16 at 9:52 am to
quote:

Nola people love to stop at the beginning of the merge and wait for somebody else to stop and let them over causing a massive cluster frick


That's just dumb, but passing up a spot to get in comfortable and at a reasonable speed to get to the front is also a problem. Slowing down to get in no matter where you do it, front or back, is the problem. I just find that waiting to the last second will force you to slow down, whereas people who come to a near stop right away are being dumbasses on their own free will.

quote:

, the merge is not what is causing the slow down in speed and for the lane to become halted. Highway capacity is doing that. Think of an open interstate with no merges. Why doesn't it always flow at 65 mph? Because of highway capacity.


???? If three lanes were flowing fine, then they went down to two lanes and there's a traffic jam, then you are correct, the "capacity" of the two lane just filled up and is causing it to become slower, but the actual mechanism that causes the slowing is the merge itself. An interstate doesn't always flow at 65 because of an issue.....a stalled car, an exit that fills up and backs onto the interstate, a wreck, etc. Or if there are so many cars, you do not have the room you previously had to merge. I ultimately comes down to capacity, but there is always a root cause. If you have proper capacity to make a traffic move in a 3 lane area of the road, it will happen more efficiently then trying to do it in the 2 lane area where there isn't the capacity, hence getting over quickly will be helpful. And I'm not talking about getting over right away or you're wrong, but do it as soon as the opportunity presents itself for you to merge at the speed of traffic, and there will be less issues for everyone.
Posted by Napoleon
Kenna
Member since Dec 2007
69068 posts
Posted on 3/23/16 at 9:57 am to
quote:

It's ok for cars to pass you and merge at the PROPER point. This goes out to the stupid bitch on Greenwell Springs Rd this afternoon.


If there is a long line of cars and the merging cars are adding to the traffic, then I see no problem in her actions. You should merge over before your merge lane ends, and not drive down to the point where there is no longer room without being on the shoulder.
Posted by southernelite
Dallas
Member since Sep 2009
53177 posts
Posted on 3/23/16 at 10:09 am to
Well, the DOTD is wasting money putting in the metered ramps on 90. Odds anyone oays any attention are them are near 0.
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