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re: How well regarded was General Patton before the movie "Patton"?
Posted on 5/27/15 at 8:22 am to Tiger1242
Posted on 5/27/15 at 8:22 am to Tiger1242
quote:
I get the whole tough general refusing to suffer cowards thing...
But he slapped 2 soldiers suffering mental trauma and probably PTSD and threw them out of the hospital, that wasn't a good idea
You do understand he was commanding an army during a war against ruthless enemies hell bent on conquering the world, correct?
He wasn't in midstate Kansas lolly gagging in a hospital.
0
Posted on 5/27/15 at 8:23 am to Tiger1242
My dad served in Patton's Third Army, Ninth Armored Division. Said he was an SOB and tough as nails. But respected and almost feared.
Posted on 5/27/15 at 8:25 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
The movie (one of my favorite, by the way) - attempted to make him look bad (recall that was during the Vietnam War), but it backfired - he became more popular than ever.
I disagree Ace. The movie is widely regarded as one of the best, most accurate biographical movies ever made. I thought it did a good job of evenly presenting the ups and downs of his career. He was a top battlefield commander, but lacked the discretion needed for top generals at the political level. I don't really thing the movie went out if its way to make him look bad. Even during his apology, the troops roar in laughter when he says that he was standing on high to apologize so that everyone could see what a huge son of a bitch he really was. I thought the toast scene with the Russian general perfectly summed up Gen. Patton.
This post was edited on 5/27/15 at 8:45 am
Posted on 5/27/15 at 8:30 am to Stevo
When are they gonna the movie Chesty?
Posted on 5/27/15 at 8:31 am to Stevo
They all had their strengths and weaknesses. Bradley and Monty get beat up a bit but they were still good leaders if not as aggressive as Patton. Eisenhower was a very good Supreme Commander and absolutely the one for the job, then served two terms as President and he didn't see a day in combat during his complete military career.
Posted on 5/27/15 at 8:35 am to rumproast
quote:
My grandfather told me that the sentiment of most the men was that if they could have gotten a clear shot at him, they'd have probably taken it...
A man that was friends with my grandparents was in an engineering group in 3rd army. He told my dad that most of the troops wouldn't have pissed on Patton if he was on fire. The same man would readily admit that WWII wasn't time for a general to participate in a popularity contest.
This post was edited on 5/27/15 at 8:39 am
Posted on 5/27/15 at 8:38 am to VetteGuy
quote:
despite not having a female speaking role
Should have won Best Actress in a Supporting Role for this..
Posted on 5/27/15 at 8:38 am to Tiger1242
One of the reasons that the D-Day invasion was so successful was that he was used as a decoy. The Germans were so convinced that he'd lead the attack, they concentrated much of their defense on where they thought he would land.
He did have a weird DiNardo-esque fixation on the uniform, though.
He did have a weird DiNardo-esque fixation on the uniform, though.
Posted on 5/27/15 at 8:39 am to GeauxxxTigers23
WW II was the first war in which global politics dictated battlefield strategy. Patton did not understand not did he care about the other allies or their political agendas. He hated the communists. He hated that both French and British politics dictated battlefield priorities. Despite all of this and the media issues, he succeeded in Africa, Sicily and the European continent. I am confident that he ends the war by Christmas and beats the Russians to Berlin in Market Garden hadn't been prioritized over crossing the Rhine. Honestly, in my opinion Marshall and Eisenhower did a disservice to Patton by putting him in positions where he had media exposure or have press conferences. They could have shielded him from that if they had more awareness. Patton had no media relations training, let alone experience.
Posted on 5/27/15 at 8:45 am to michael corleone
quote:
Eisenhower did a disservice to Patton by putting him in positions where he had media exposure or have press conferences. They could have shielded him from that if they had more awareness. Patton had no media relations training, let alone experience.
Good points.
Posted on 5/27/15 at 8:51 am to Stevo
quote:
I disagree Ace. The movie is widely regarded as one of the best, most accurate biographical movies ever made.
The real Patton had a higher pitched, nasally oice. However, it is difficult to imagine a more compelling portrayal of a real life figure - so the casting of Scott was an A+.
I respect dissenting opinions on this and perhaps I impugn the motives of Hollywood too harshly. The only movie made about the Vietnam War while the war was going on was John Wayne's The Green Berets - it was derided as propoganda (and it was, kind of, but come on - The Duke wasn't going to make some commie, Jane Fonda, American-hating movie) - and there wasn't a "positive" Vietnam War movie until We Were Soldiers - at least that I'm aware of (unless you count Forrest Gump).
So, when you see films made during the period - Kelly's Heroes, M*A*S*H and Patton - this was a decidedly anti-war Hollywood establishment, often times fighting their own proxy war against the Vietnam War. The comedies are definitely anti-establishment - ironically Patton himself is an anti-establishment figure, bucking the system and behaving rebelliously as well.
I just always took it as a knock on LBJ, Nixon and their generals who were aggressively fighting the Vietnam War - despite Hollywood's love affair with WWII.
Maybe I'm overly sensitive. Regardless of their intentions, they produced a movie that reflected the complex character that Patton himself created. I should probably be appreciative of the result and ignore my own subjective interpretations of their intentions.
This post was edited on 5/27/15 at 9:07 am
Posted on 5/27/15 at 9:01 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
Except that Scott would have towered over Patton
Patton was taller than Scott.
Posted on 5/27/15 at 9:05 am to LSUTiger205
quote:
Patton was taller than Scott.
Yeah - slightly. I must have been thinking of something else, then.
Posted on 5/27/15 at 9:10 am to Ace Midnight
I wish the movie went into more detail with his earlier life. He was a believer in reincarnation and had a belief his destiny was to die in battle, this is why he had some of the antics during WWI and WWII.
He was also an Olympic athlete and damn good horseman.
He was also an Olympic athlete and damn good horseman.
Posted on 5/27/15 at 9:13 am to terd ferguson
quote:
Removing your best battlefield commander for slapping a crybaby... dumb.
The pussification of America started early.
Posted on 5/27/15 at 9:15 am to Tiger1242
If you want to read a great book on him. I suggest the
3 volume set called The Patton Papers by Martin Blumenson. Very very good read. He kept a diary his for almost his whole life. It has lots of his own writings in it. It really helps you understand the man.
I want to say placed 4th in the Olympics. If I remember correctly in the book he said he thinks He should have gotten a medal because one of his shots they marked as a miss he thought went through the hole of another shot he had made.
3 volume set called The Patton Papers by Martin Blumenson. Very very good read. He kept a diary his for almost his whole life. It has lots of his own writings in it. It really helps you understand the man.
quote:
He was also an Olympic athlete and damn good horseman.
I want to say placed 4th in the Olympics. If I remember correctly in the book he said he thinks He should have gotten a medal because one of his shots they marked as a miss he thought went through the hole of another shot he had made.
This post was edited on 5/27/15 at 9:20 am
Posted on 5/27/15 at 9:18 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
Monty get a knock for being too passive
Then he got ambitious and went a bridge too far.
Posted on 5/27/15 at 9:19 am to Tiger1242
I have read two biographies of Patton. He was one the best generals in history, aided mightily by his strong knowledge of history as depicted in the movie. He was a tank commander in WWI and actually wrote the book on using tanks in battle, which was used by the army for decades. He considered it the new cavalry.
The invasion of Normandy is probably not nearly as successful without Eisenhower deciding to use Patton as a decoy, tricking the Germans into thinking we were going to invade at Calais.
He was also an excellent shot so, per Wikipedia:
He was also great at fencing:
The man was exceptional. He was also the wealthiest man in the military because he came from money and married into even bigger wealth.
The invasion of Normandy is probably not nearly as successful without Eisenhower deciding to use Patton as a decoy, tricking the Germans into thinking we were going to invade at Calais.
He was also an excellent shot so, per Wikipedia:
quote:
For his skill with running and fencing, Patton was selected as the Army's entry for the first-ever modern pentathlon for the 1912 Olympic Games in Stockholm, Sweden.[26] Of 42 competitors, Patton placed twenty-first on the pistol range, seventh in swimming, fourth in fencing, sixth in the equestrian competition, and third in the footrace, finishing fifth overall and the first non-Swede.[27] There was some controversy concerning his performance in the pistol shooting competition, where he used a .38 caliber pistol while most of the other competitors chose .22 caliber firearms. He claimed that the holes in the paper from his early shots were so large that some of his later bullets passed through them, but the judges decided he missed the target completely once. Modern competitions on this level frequently now employ a moving background to specifically track multiple shots through the same hole.[28][29] If his assertion was correct, Patton would likely have won an Olympic medal in the event
He was also great at fencing:
quote:
Following the 1912 Olympics, Patton traveled to Saumur, France, where he learned fencing techniques from Adjutant Charles Cléry, a French "master of arms" and instructor of fencing at the cavalry school there.[31] Bringing these lessons back to Fort Meyer, Patton redesigned saber combat doctrine for the U.S. cavalry, favoring thrusting attacks over the standard slashing maneuver and designing a new sword for such attacks. He was temporarily assigned to the Office of the Army Chief of Staff, and in 1913, the first 20,000 of the Model 1913 Cavalry Saber—popularly known as the "Patton sword"—were ordered. Patton then returned to Saumur to learn advanced techniques before bringing his skills to the Mounted Service School at Fort Riley, Kansas, where he would be both a student and a fencing instructor. He was the first Army officer to be designated "Master of the Sword,
The man was exceptional. He was also the wealthiest man in the military because he came from money and married into even bigger wealth.
Posted on 5/27/15 at 9:25 am to YouAre8Up
He was regarded as a great general but I read a biography on Eisenhower and it showed a different side of Patton. He was sometimes hard to manage Nd cause problems but so effective he had to be kept in command
Posted on 5/27/15 at 9:28 am to LeonPhelps
quote:
He was also the wealthiest man in the military because he came from money and married into even bigger wealth.
He funded a PCS move to Hawaii on his own dime - using a family yacht. That's OT money, right there.
This post was edited on 5/27/15 at 9:31 am
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