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re: how can we improve our educational system?

Posted on 6/24/14 at 9:33 pm to
Posted by tigerinthebueche
Member since Oct 2010
36791 posts
Posted on 6/24/14 at 9:33 pm to
quote:

, getting the federal government out of the schools would pretty much doom the lower class as well as a significant portion of the Middle Class.


Well having them involved thus far hasn't seemed to work so well. What makes you think the Feds are so vital to these two groups?
Posted by avondale88
Montgomery
Member since May 2009
2634 posts
Posted on 6/24/14 at 9:34 pm to
What you just described is the city of New Orleans pre Katrina.
Posted by StringedInstruments
Member since Oct 2013
18367 posts
Posted on 6/24/14 at 9:36 pm to
quote:

Well having them involved thus far hasn't seemed to work so well. What makes you think the Feds are so vital to these two groups?


I promised myself I wouldn't respond to you, but Jesus -

Exactly what is so bad about the educational system in America? What kind of irreparable harm is being inflicted towards innocent children that the federal government is solely responsible for?

Posted by tigerinthebueche
Member since Oct 2010
36791 posts
Posted on 6/24/14 at 9:46 pm to
Well for one, here in BR, the bussing policy approved by a federal court pretty well destroyed community schools. As I understand it. Moreover, the federal programs that have made the local districts financially dependent on them, has damaged if not destroyed the individual districts autonomy. I don't blame the Feds for all the issues facing education, but I dont see them as the answer either. As for what's wrong with our educational system in general, well it doesn't seem to be working. If you disagree, correct me. I'll sit back and wait for your response.
Posted by StringedInstruments
Member since Oct 2013
18367 posts
Posted on 6/24/14 at 9:52 pm to
quote:

well it doesn't seem to be working.


I can't disagree with something as nebulous as this. The OP at least asked how we can improve it and didn't just blatantly accuse it of not working.

I'm not familiar with the local issues plaguing Baton Rouge.

Autonomy is not always the right choice. Federal regulations and financial oversight help create a necessary equilibrium in order to prevent gross misinformation and dangerous ideals from being taught to unprotected school children.
Posted by tigerinthebueche
Member since Oct 2010
36791 posts
Posted on 6/24/14 at 10:01 pm to
Is "not working" as nebulous as "a community that cares about education"?
By not working I mean students today seem to lack basic reading comprehension, grammar, and math skills relative to previous generations.

quote:

Autonomy is not always the right choice. Federal regulations and financial oversight help create a necessary equilibrium in order to prevent gross misinformation and dangerous ideals from being taught to unprotected school children.


Well what makes you think the Feds are better suited to decide these things than the local community (parents) whose children are the ones learning it?
And what exactly are "dangerous ideals"? Creationism? Evolution? Capitalism? What makes you think I'd want Reagan or Clinton, or some bureaucrat deciding what is "dangerous" rather than my own community?
Posted by StringedInstruments
Member since Oct 2013
18367 posts
Posted on 6/24/14 at 10:11 pm to
quote:

By not working I mean students today seem to lack basic reading comprehension, grammar, and math skills relative to previous generations.


Please provide a source for this.

quote:

Well what makes you think the Feds are better suited to decide these things than the local community (parents) whose children are the ones learning it?
And what exactly are "dangerous ideals"? Creationism? Evolution? Capitalism? What makes you think I'd want Reagan or Clinton, or some bureaucrat deciding what is "dangerous" rather than my own community?


Curriculum is established on a state-by-state basis for one thing.

And the curriculum is and should be created based on credible research. Just because someone is a parent doesn't mean they are credible. I'm sure there are plenty of people in your neighborhood that you would not want assigning what is taught in the public classroom.
Posted by tigerinthebueche
Member since Oct 2010
36791 posts
Posted on 6/24/14 at 10:18 pm to
You are correct regarding some of my neighbors!
As for a source, I don't have one to site at the moment. My statement is based on information from both educators and parents via the news or articles I've read and my own experience with 18-20 year old employees. Granted, it's not scientific. If you can site a source to refute me please do so.

This post was edited on 6/24/14 at 10:23 pm
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
108146 posts
Posted on 6/24/14 at 10:47 pm to
quote:

Well having them involved thus far hasn't seemed to work so well. What makes you think the Feds are so vital to these two groups?



The cash they provide for starters.
Posted by 911Moto
Member since Sep 2013
5491 posts
Posted on 6/25/14 at 6:40 am to
You can't make kids care. The ones who want to learn do learn. You can give two kids the same conditions and get drastically different results,
Posted by nc14
La Jolla
Member since Jan 2012
28193 posts
Posted on 6/25/14 at 6:55 am to
Nothing is wrong with standardized tests, the testing has gone way overboard and the emphasis on getting scores up has replaced true education. Look at the increased number of perfect scores on SATs, it's not an indicator of academic prowess any longer but rather an example that people can be trained to test.

quote:

Teachers would really prefer the kids that don't want to be there to be removed.


These people should not be teachers.
Posted by dnm3305
Member since Feb 2009
13563 posts
Posted on 6/25/14 at 8:04 am to
In addition to my previous statements in this thread...

quote:

A) We cannot improve our educational system. The system is not the problem, the parents (or lack thereof) are.

B) Make it ALOT more difficult to get an educational degree and compensate teachers more. That would attract some of the brighter students out of high school and the end product teacher would be better.

B is irrelevant because A will never change. This is the system in which we have which is a direct reflection on the state of our country.





...if students would go to school from 7:30-5pm and have about 2 hrs of homework after and if summer was cut by about 75%, then there would be a drastic change in the overall knowledge they would retain. There's a reason Asian's outperform us so dramatically in the classroom. Americans go to school, on avg, 180 days a yr. Japanese go to school, on avg, 243 days a yr. Is that a coincidence? America's issues with education are culturally engrained. We are a lazy society when compared to many other nations and because of that, we are not as smart. Good luck telling teachers that the solution to the problem (aside from parents) is cutting their summers to 1/4 the length they typically would be.
This post was edited on 6/25/14 at 8:07 am
Posted by SouthOfSouth
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2008
43456 posts
Posted on 6/25/14 at 8:06 am to
The best way to improve out education system would be to somehow make learning "cool". I liked to learn and did really well in school. Others didn't think it was the cool thing to do and they used their time on other things. Gotta make school, cool.
Posted by dnm3305
Member since Feb 2009
13563 posts
Posted on 6/25/14 at 8:11 am to
quote:

The best way to improve out education system would be to somehow make learning "cool".

Alot of truth to this. If school hours were opened up to 7:30-5pm, there would be more time in the classroom with more hands-on activities and learning could be approached from a more fun perspective. Instead, Algebra 2 is crammed into a 55 min session and a teacher is forced into a particular type of shitty curriculum instead of being allowed to be creative. Of course, becoming a teacher is too easy and it doesnt attract the best and the brightest so the competency of current teachers as a whole being able to make algebra fun and engaging would be in question.
Posted by BigEdLSU
All around the south
Member since Sep 2010
20268 posts
Posted on 6/25/14 at 8:20 am to
When you have a few generations back to back that would rather party than raise their kids, this is what happens.

You're right. Have to make school cool. How do you do that? Provide a refundable tax credit to families with kids who grade/score at high levels.
Posted by tigerinthebueche
Member since Oct 2010
36791 posts
Posted on 6/25/14 at 8:25 am to
quote:

The cash they provide for starters.


I believe per capita spending on students has increased every year, while test scores and student performance has (simultaneously) gone down. It would appear throwing money at the problem isn't solving it. Kind of like the way throwing money at poverty doesn't necessarily fix that either.
Posted by StringedInstruments
Member since Oct 2013
18367 posts
Posted on 6/25/14 at 8:35 am to
quote:

...if students would go to school from 7:30-5pm and have about 2 hrs of homework after and if summer was cut by about 75%, then there would be a drastic change in the overall knowledge they would retain. There's a reason Asian's outperform us so dramatically in the classroom. Americans go to school, on avg, 180 days a yr. Japanese go to school, on avg, 243 days a yr. Is that a coincidence? America's issues with education are culturally engrained. We are a lazy society when compared to many other nations and because of that, we are not as smart. Good luck telling teachers that the solution to the problem (aside from parents) is cutting their summers to 1/4 the length they typically would be.


I agree with most of this. Though I don't agree with going longer hours with extra homework, I do think it's absurd that we give kids a two month break - plus a week for Thanksgiving, two weeks for Christmas, and a week for spring break - and then expect them to perform at the highest level in the world.

I would support a summer "break" that was more field trip oriented. Or make the summer session more of an outdoor learning experience with science experiments, community activities, and history lessons. Funding would be really difficult though.
Posted by Breesus
House of the Rising Sun
Member since Jan 2010
66982 posts
Posted on 6/25/14 at 8:38 am to
quote:

how can we improve our educational system?


Privatization

Trade school programs need to be supported and encouraged in high school after sophomore year

Find a way to ease up many of the restrictions and law suits threatening teachers and schools for every little thing.

frick Tenure. Tenure is one of the most insane things ever.

Overturn most of the school boards everywhere

Increase pay for teachers and demand qualifications.
This post was edited on 6/25/14 at 8:40 am
Posted by StringedInstruments
Member since Oct 2013
18367 posts
Posted on 6/25/14 at 8:42 am to
quote:

Privatization


In the free market, competition is fierce and a select few usually reap the most benefits. Not good for education where we want every child to be taught how to function and contribute in our society.

quote:

Trade school programs need to be supported and encouraged in high school after sophomore year

Find a way to ease up many of the restrictions and law suits threatening teachers and schools for every little thing.


Definitely agree. Also we as a society need to remove the stigma of working a trade. Where I used to work, there was a county tech school that students could apply during their sophomore year. Guess what kids applied? Special ed students, ESL students, and students who barely passed each class. Everyone else viewed the tech school as a place for stupid people to go to.

That type of condescension isn't surprising though. How much intellectual respect do people have for plumbers, welders, and mechanics?

Hey you keep adding shite!

quote:

frick Tenure. Tenure is one of the most insane things ever.


Yes and no. Teachers technically don't receive tenure just due process but that's a semantics argument. Teachers should be given due process because of the fragility of funding and the demand for so many extra curriculars.

When I worked as a teacher, I had a new principal come in and ask me to coach a sport. I was not a coach. No coaching potential. No coaching desire. He said to my face, "If I could get the 3pm teachers like you out of here, we'd be much better off!" I was nominated for TOY twice and I put a lot of effort into improving my teaching and knowledge of my subject. But since I didn't want to blow a whistle, I was deemed a hindrance to the quality of the school.

quote:


Overturn most of the school boards everywhere


Yeah and simplify their roles. It's crazy that the school board can have a million+ dollar salary budget while doing nothing but sit in an office and think of bullshite for teachers to do.

quote:



Increase pay for teachers and demand qualifications.


Yes and no. Teachers are paid just fine considering they work 182 days a year. Plenty of benefits, time off and the ability to be home by 330. Get a master's degree and a teacher will make $50k by the time they're vested in the retirement system.

Qualifications definitely need some work but I think that's at the college level. My education classes were a joke. Just a few hurdles to sit on while my "credentials" for certification were built.
This post was edited on 6/25/14 at 8:49 am
Posted by Sl4m
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2012
3717 posts
Posted on 6/25/14 at 8:52 am to
Eliminate the "no child left behind" BS.
Fail those who deserve to fail.

Make the education system an honest system again.

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