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re: Founder of Jimmy Johns is a big game hunter. ( people upset)

Posted on 10/25/16 at 11:36 pm to
Posted by texag7
College Station
Member since Apr 2014
37472 posts
Posted on 10/25/16 at 11:36 pm to
If hunting is outlawed they will all just be poached and sold off as ivory.

There will be zero left.

You don't seem to understand that.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
421771 posts
Posted on 10/25/16 at 11:36 pm to
quote:

Basically since they are selling a "product" they are showing the locals that there is huge money in poaching them.

no

poachers already have a value set (typically by asian markets). the value of teh animals to the locals is below this, so poaching is pretty rampant and hard to enforce (it's too expensive and the locals don't really support it b/c they'd rather poach the animals)

creating a legal commodity market raises the value of the animals on the legal market to where there is a much larger economic incentive to protect the populations. these hunts are also typically highly regulated and if it involves a protected species, i believe multiple US agencies have to approve the hunt (in addition to the African agencies)
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
421771 posts
Posted on 10/25/16 at 11:38 pm to
quote:

No one should be allowed to kill an elephant, Rhino, Leopard, Lion, etc.

these restrictions are exactly why poachers and farmers are allowed free reign to devastate populations and have done so for decades, which is why so many are in critical populations
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
421771 posts
Posted on 10/25/16 at 11:39 pm to
quote:

Hold on... You actually believe that the local population is seeing one cent of that money?

yes. do some research

also the meat is typically donated to the local area
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
421771 posts
Posted on 10/25/16 at 11:40 pm to
quote:

Thousands more people travel to Africa to view and photograph these animals in their natural environment than do people who go to hunt them.

and Kenya basically cornered that market

it's not really available to other markets
Posted by fr33manator
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2010
123935 posts
Posted on 10/25/16 at 11:43 pm to
quote:

I begrudge people from other countries who go there to exploit Africa and it's natural resources.



Ahhhh...so you hate the Asians.
Posted by Blue Velvet
Apple butter toast is nice
Member since Nov 2009
20112 posts
Posted on 10/25/16 at 11:44 pm to
quote:

Sure, when you're talking about white tail deer populations in the Southeastern US, or Elk populations out west. Not when we're talking about endangered species of Elephants and Lions. Don't be obtuse.
You have no idea what you're talking. You could educate yourself in a few minutes via YouTube or article but you're too lazy and are just another moronic knee-jerk reactionary.

Privatization/livestock-approach/legalized-ivory/etc is the best way to save these species.

Again:
Trophy hunting is good
Posted by UPT
NOLA
Member since May 2009
5507 posts
Posted on 10/25/16 at 11:45 pm to
quote:

If hunting is outlawed they will all just be poached and sold off as ivory.

There will be zero left.

You don't seem to understand that.



You're an idiot.

I'll repeat one more time.

More money is made from non hunting tourism than by hunting tourism.

quote:

Trophy hunting accounts for a fraction of the R323 billion that tourism contributed to South Africa’s GDP in 2013. About 8,500 trophy hunters visit South Africa each year, compared to around 9.5 million tourists.

The 2006 Biological Conservation paper estimated “a minimum of 18,500” hunters participated in hunts annually in sub-Saharan Africa (generating revenue of around US$201 million), compared to World Bank estimates of around 33.8 million visitors in 2012, earning the region US$36 billion.


LINK

Whoever told you that African parks are dependent on foreigners coming to kill their spectacle was lying to you.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
421771 posts
Posted on 10/25/16 at 11:48 pm to
quote:

More money is made from non hunting tourism than by hunting tourism.

that market is not repeatable and is already basically satiated

that's the issue

it's like saying "why don't these African nations create their own Wall Street?"
Posted by UPT
NOLA
Member since May 2009
5507 posts
Posted on 10/25/16 at 11:48 pm to
quote:

You have no idea what you're talking. You could educate yourself in a few minutes via YouTube or article but you're too lazy and are just another moronic knee-jerk reactionary.


you can take your "college humor" video and cram it in your cramhole, mr. educated.

Legalized ivory tade... lol

You're a pretty naive fellow.
Posted by UPT
NOLA
Member since May 2009
5507 posts
Posted on 10/25/16 at 11:49 pm to
quote:

and Kenya basically cornered that market


That's completely false.
Posted by TigerDeBaiter
Member since Dec 2010
10257 posts
Posted on 10/25/16 at 11:51 pm to
quote:

Good for him. As long as he does it legally, more power to him.


All "legally" means in Africa is you had enough money to pay the corrupt government. There is never an excuse for killing endangered animal species. That's just ridiculous.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
421771 posts
Posted on 10/25/16 at 11:52 pm to
iirc, Kenya is by far the #1 market

i've read academic papers on this issue before

there are 2 reasons that these populations are endangered: (1) poachers and (2) farmers

the question is how we combat these issues. outlawing the legal market has done just what we see with drugs and the WOD. a black market is created. that's where poachers thrive (and that market is from Asia, not the West)
Posted by el Gaucho
He/They
Member since Dec 2010
52918 posts
Posted on 10/25/16 at 11:53 pm to
man i wish i had a shitty sandwich place, seems like the guys that run those can do whatever the frick they want
Posted by texag7
College Station
Member since Apr 2014
37472 posts
Posted on 10/25/16 at 11:53 pm to
From your own provided link

quote:

Published in February 2013, the report argued the “US$200 million estimate should be used with caution” and claimed the paper was based on “weak sources and methodology”.Its primary criticism appears to have been that the authors relied on “published and unpublished literature”, much of which Economists at Large researchers were unable access publicly or find online.




quote:

In a 2014 paper, he and two co-authors investigated the economic impact of hunting in South Africa’s Limpopo, Northern Cape and Free State provinces. “The research found 17,806 (Limpopo), 9,072 (Northern Cape) and 4,558 (Free State) jobs may depend on hunting, in addition to those of people permanently employed on game farms,” Saayman said.
Posted by Blue Velvet
Apple butter toast is nice
Member since Nov 2009
20112 posts
Posted on 10/25/16 at 11:54 pm to
quote:

Legalized ivory tade... lol
Best way to save the species. But hey, you ensure they remain endangered or go extinct because the method makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
421771 posts
Posted on 10/25/16 at 11:56 pm to
legalizing ivory and horns PLUS flooding the asian markets with manufactured horns to disrupt that market is proabaly the best way to stop the poachers. just crater the price of their goods
Posted by UPT
NOLA
Member since May 2009
5507 posts
Posted on 10/25/16 at 11:56 pm to
quote:

the question is how we combat these issues.


Posted by Blue Velvet
Apple butter toast is nice
Member since Nov 2009
20112 posts
Posted on 10/25/16 at 11:57 pm to
Everyone should take at least one Econ course. I thought he was trolling but he may actually be this clueless. Some people just can't wrap their heads around black markets.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
421771 posts
Posted on 10/25/16 at 11:58 pm to
i don't think decreasing the supply of the good and having its prices skyrocket will combat the economic incentives of poaching
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