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re: Why I think we shouldn't trade for Malcolm Butler
Posted on 3/26/17 at 1:06 am to wildtigercat93
Posted on 3/26/17 at 1:06 am to wildtigercat93
Pats average about 45 sacks the past 3 years, saints average about 32. Pats number is blown up a little by their #2 in total sacks year in 2015, while in 2014 (tied for 13th) and 2016 (tied for 16th) they were closer to the middle of the pack
Sacks don't tell the whole story but that's a good baseline to give an idea of where everyone lands over the past 3 years.
Sacks don't tell the whole story but that's a good baseline to give an idea of where everyone lands over the past 3 years.
1
Posted on 3/26/17 at 1:07 am to bonethug0108
quote:Not this year. Next year. And the year after that. We're dealing with a salary cap, so the difference between $12 million a year for Butler and $2 million a year for Tre'Davious White or Quincy Wilson will be felt under the cap for the duration of the contract. The Saints have been one of the worst teams in the league at managing the salary cap. This proposed trade in a year when the CB draft class is so strong is a good example of why. I'm not saying Butler isn't a good player. I'm saying he's not worth $10 million a year MORE than Tre White, Teez Tabor, et al.
Who is left in FA this year to spend the money on? That ship has come and gone.
This post was edited on 3/26/17 at 1:12 am
Posted on 3/26/17 at 1:55 am to L.A.
You missed the point where we NEED to win this year to have a chance at keeping Brees. This isn't the year the cheap out.
And if we do what you said and the rookie corner doesn't start or is just a complete bust that could hurt our whole defense, compared to having Butler who could potentially improve it a good bit.
So if we are worried about the salary cap next year then you are missing that we'd have a shite ton more cap because we won't be paying a QB $25+ mil a year. So now it was completely fricking pointless not to spend the money on what appears to be a very good corner.
And if we do what you said and the rookie corner doesn't start or is just a complete bust that could hurt our whole defense, compared to having Butler who could potentially improve it a good bit.
So if we are worried about the salary cap next year then you are missing that we'd have a shite ton more cap because we won't be paying a QB $25+ mil a year. So now it was completely fricking pointless not to spend the money on what appears to be a very good corner.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 2:15 am to breauxmosexual
quote:
relentless pass rush? the pats may have a worse rush than the New Orleans Saints
This might be true this past year but not before that. They've not had a 07 Giants level pass rush but they've been light years ahead of the Saints in pass rush up until this past season.
Having said that, they're rush was still a lot better than ours.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 2:38 am to WicKed WayZ
yeah the Saints pass rush is notoriously bad. My point is that saying butler has been great bc of an elite pass rush is completely bs. It's one of the weaker parts of their defense and has been since he's played there
Posted on 3/26/17 at 2:45 am to wildtigercat93
quote:
Pats average about 45 sacks the past 3 years, saints average about 32. Pats number is blown up a little by their #2 in total sacks year in 2015, while in 2014 (tied for 13th) and 2016 (tied for 16th) they were closer to the middle of the pack
if you are just guessing how many of them do you think are coverage sacks??
or is it being blessed to play in the same divison with the Geno Smiths/Ryan Fitzpatricks of the world? Heck even throw Tannehill in there too.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 2:52 am to LooseCannon22282
quote:
or is it being blessed to play in the same divison with the Geno Smiths/Ryan Fitzpatricks of the world? Heck even throw Tannehill in there too.
I'm not saying they have a great pass rush, they are pretty average over that span, but they aren't really bad either. I don't think the divisional QBs make up a huge differential tho.
Hard to gauge which what sacks are from coverage or poor decisions, feel like that all averages out decently well over the course of 3 years.
This post was edited on 3/26/17 at 2:53 am
Posted on 3/26/17 at 3:00 am to wildtigercat93
it just seemed like everytime I watched the Dolphins (they come on a lot where I live) that Tannehill got sacked a lot no matter who they were playing.
their combo of Landry/Stills is pretty underrated I think.
the Jets were just bad last year most of the time..
their combo of Landry/Stills is pretty underrated I think.
the Jets were just bad last year most of the time..
Posted on 3/26/17 at 3:04 am to LooseCannon22282
Tannehill plays like shite until down by two scores and then he's Joe montana.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 3:23 am to LooseCannon22282
Pats got 8 sacks within the division last year and none came from tannehill. Most came from the Bills/Jets
Saints had 9 sacks within the division last year so they a higher percentage of sacks come within the division vs outside of the division (30% vs 24%)
2015- Pats had 17.5 sacks within the division for a 36% mark
Saints had 11 sacks within the division also for a 36% rate
2014- Pats had 17 sacks in divison, 42%
Saints had 9, 26%
Butler wasn't a starter in 2014 either
Saints had 9 sacks within the division last year so they a higher percentage of sacks come within the division vs outside of the division (30% vs 24%)
2015- Pats had 17.5 sacks within the division for a 36% mark
Saints had 11 sacks within the division also for a 36% rate
2014- Pats had 17 sacks in divison, 42%
Saints had 9, 26%
Butler wasn't a starter in 2014 either
This post was edited on 3/26/17 at 3:46 am
Posted on 3/26/17 at 6:01 am to L.A.
quote:
This year's draft is the deepest draft for CB's in a decade. There are about a dozen CB's who are worth the #32 pick. At least half of them will be available when we select. I'd rather keep the pick and draft a CB at #32, someone who will cost about $2 million a year, freeing up $10 million a year for free agents next year.
I obviously agree that it is a deep cb draft, but I don't know if there are any guys in it who are ready to come in and start at outside CB immediately. Seriously. Sidney Jones might have been the only one who was consistent enough. The rest will either take a year or two, or maybe will start in the slot.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 8:05 am to L.A.
I agree with everything you posted. I think there will be a drop in play just like there is just about anyone who leaves NE. Add to it that it's for a guy who will be 28 at the end of the year. I'm not opposed to trading for him in just opposed to trading a first or second rounder for him.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 8:53 am to St Augustine
I would normally not be for this trade but as others have pointed out the NEED factor is that high. Normally I'd would call 3rd Rd the appropriate compensation for a guy you have to pay big bucks. I'm hoping the hold up is the process of getting it done without sacrificing #32.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 9:06 am to St Augustine
quote:
Add to it that it's for a guy who will be 28 at the end of the year.
He literally turned 27 this month so this is false.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 9:09 am to WicKed WayZ
quote:
Is there someone that's going to come in and be a sure fire No. 1 corner? Or in your opinion a sure fire No. 2 corner? Especially with our draft history with CBs I would much rather take a risk with a proven All Pro.
Uh, Pats just paid their #1 corner.
Obviously Belichick (you know, the best coach in the history of fricking sports) doesn't think he warrants that kind of money.
I agree with whatever Bill says.
I wouldn't trade for him either.
Why would we give him 5/60 AND give up a 1 when we could have had Gilmore at 5/65 and KEEP the pick.
No brainer.
Bill B about to take ML to pound town...
Posted on 3/26/17 at 9:13 am to bonethug0108
quote:
He literally turned 27 this month so this is false.
I meant after the season. It was worded poorly
Posted on 3/26/17 at 9:17 am to bonethug0108
quote:No, I get that and I already said it's a valid argument. But Tom Brady is older than Brees and the Pats are evidently going to let Butler walk rather than pay him. In fact, they preferred to pay FA money to Stephon Gilmore rather than Butler. So they'll get a 1st round pick as compensation and choose a more cost effective CB to replace Butler in a draft that is the deepest CB class in a decade. There's a reason the Pats contend for the Super Bowl every year and the Saints have only been once in 50 years. This trade is a good example.
You missed the point where we NEED to win this year to have a chance at keeping Brees.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 9:20 am to St Augustine
quote:
I meant after the season. It was worded poorly
Gotcha. My bad.
But he plays here healthy for 5 years and that won't be an issue.
My bigger concern is the health of everyone who plays outside corner for us. Every single one gets injured.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 9:28 am to L.A.
quote:
Pats are evidently going to let Butler walk rather than pay him. In fact, they preferred to pay FA money to Stephon Gilmore rather than Butler. So they'll get a 1st round pick as compensation and choose a more cost effective CB to replace Butler in a draft that is the deepest CB class in a decade. There's a reason the Pats contend for the Super Bowl every year and the Saints have only been once in 50 years. This trade is a good example.
THIS!!!
Posted on 3/26/17 at 9:34 am to bonethug0108
quote:
You missed the point where we NEED to win this year to have a chance at keeping Brees. This isn't the year the cheap out.
If Brees wants to uproot his family and go chase a ring at 39 more power to him. Its been a fantastic ride with him but I don't think you worry too much about a guy pushing 40 bailing but I'm also of the mindset that our window is closed and has been closed for a little while now ( at least if you assume only a couple of years left with Brees before he retires).
Yes the defense is in a process of rebuilding but we don't have really any offensive depth either. When you think about our 09 team and how all 4 of those WRs were essentially in their primes despite their individualized roles, the play you got from Shockley and Thomas at TE, the pass catching ability of PT and Bush, and the ability to pound people late with Bell.... all the while having Brees in his prime at an MVP level. We presently have 2 good young WRs, an inconsistent TE who is good not great, and one good Rb. Just don't think there are enough guys to make the plays needed for a meaningful run and I think it would take a season or two of adding in more weapons before they'd all click in a way that would make you a SB contender.
TLDR. We don't have the talent across the board so I wouldn't sell the farm for a cb because if Brees really wants to go, I don't think it'll matter that much. He will go to a loaded roster sans qb for one last ditch effort.
This post was edited on 3/26/17 at 9:39 am
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