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Why I think we shouldn't trade for Malcolm Butler
Posted on 3/25/17 at 11:09 pm
Posted on 3/25/17 at 11:09 pm
Evidently this trade is a fait accompli, so this post is strictly IMO, fwiw, yada yada yada.
When Butler came out in 2014 he didn't even get invited to the Combine. He was allowed to participate in the U of Alabama pro day since he played his college ball at Div II West Alabama, and he ran a 4.6 40. He subsequently went undrafted. In 3 short years he was 2nd Team All-Pro, so I'm not knocking him. However, he was playing on one of the best defenses in the NFL, with a relentless pass rush in front of him, and he was coached by best coach in the NFL. So my questions are:
1. Is he going to be as good on the Saints defense as he was on the Patriots defense? I doubt it.
2. Is he going to be worth the $12 million or so a year it will take to sign him? Not in mind he isn't. Not this year, anyway.
This year's draft is the deepest draft for CB's in a decade. There are about a dozen CB's who are worth the #32 pick. At least half of them will be available when we select. I'd rather keep the pick and draft a CB at #32, someone who will cost about $2 million a year, freeing up $10 million a year for free agents next year.
I welcome your thoughts and counter arguments.
When Butler came out in 2014 he didn't even get invited to the Combine. He was allowed to participate in the U of Alabama pro day since he played his college ball at Div II West Alabama, and he ran a 4.6 40. He subsequently went undrafted. In 3 short years he was 2nd Team All-Pro, so I'm not knocking him. However, he was playing on one of the best defenses in the NFL, with a relentless pass rush in front of him, and he was coached by best coach in the NFL. So my questions are:
1. Is he going to be as good on the Saints defense as he was on the Patriots defense? I doubt it.
2. Is he going to be worth the $12 million or so a year it will take to sign him? Not in mind he isn't. Not this year, anyway.
This year's draft is the deepest draft for CB's in a decade. There are about a dozen CB's who are worth the #32 pick. At least half of them will be available when we select. I'd rather keep the pick and draft a CB at #32, someone who will cost about $2 million a year, freeing up $10 million a year for free agents next year.
I welcome your thoughts and counter arguments.
12
Posted on 3/25/17 at 11:14 pm to L.A.
Makes sense to me!!
Posted on 3/25/17 at 11:23 pm to L.A.
I value Butler for a completely different reason. This defense has young and hungry guys, what we need is leadership who has won and knows what it takes to win it all. Vilma won at Miami, Sharper won in GB, so on and so forth. I completely agree with all your points and I definitely wouldn't trade #11 for him but I want him down here. Especially with our young ish secondary, he'd be a great guy to captain our passing defense.
Posted on 3/25/17 at 11:28 pm to knowingabyss
I'll keep the 32nd overall, if it's the 2nd rounder I'll consider
Posted on 3/25/17 at 11:30 pm to L.A.
quote:
When Butler came out in 2014 he didn't even get invited to the Combine. He was allowed to participate in the U of Alabama pro day since he played his college ball at Div II West Alabama, and he ran a 4.6 40. He subsequently went undrafted. In 3 short years he was 2nd Team All-Pro, so I'm not knocking him. However, he was playing on one of the best defenses in the NFL, with a relentless pass rush in front of him, and he was coached by best coach in the NFL. So my questions are:
this is fricking irrelevant...so Brady was not drafted until the late rounds, so clearly no team should have traded for him 4 years into his career despite the numbers just because. Just an incredibly stupid and irrelevant point.
he grades out extremely well in man coverage, its not like he's just being hid away because the pats D is sooooo amazing.
This post was edited on 3/25/17 at 11:32 pm
Posted on 3/25/17 at 11:30 pm to L.A.
The problem for me with that is this year, even if we nail the pick (and that's a big if), we are extremely suspect at CB with a rook and other injury question marks.
Small window with Brees. Need a corner that can play at a pro bowl level this season.
Does Butler look better because Pats? Perhaps. But the guy can play.
Small window with Brees. Need a corner that can play at a pro bowl level this season.
Does Butler look better because Pats? Perhaps. But the guy can play.
This post was edited on 3/25/17 at 11:32 pm
Posted on 3/25/17 at 11:33 pm to knowingabyss
Butler has been in the league for 3 years. He's still pretty young.
Posted on 3/25/17 at 11:34 pm to BilJ
Reading is not your strong suit, is it?
Posted on 3/25/17 at 11:35 pm to Louisianabound88
quote:I like that trade, but remember we have to pay him and this is the era of the salary cap. $12 million a year to him instead of a CB draft choice is money we don't have to spend on other free agents.
I'll keep the 32nd overall, if it's the 2nd rounder I'll consider
Posted on 3/25/17 at 11:45 pm to L.A.
To me he's worth the 32nd pick.
Is there someone that's going to come in and be a sure fire No. 1 corner? Or in your opinion a sure fire No. 2 corner? Especially with our draft history with CBs I would much rather take a risk with a proven All Pro.
Sure he might not be an All Pro here, but he might be and at the least he's as good if not better than Breaux and that's worth a 32.
Is there someone that's going to come in and be a sure fire No. 1 corner? Or in your opinion a sure fire No. 2 corner? Especially with our draft history with CBs I would much rather take a risk with a proven All Pro.
Sure he might not be an All Pro here, but he might be and at the least he's as good if not better than Breaux and that's worth a 32.
Posted on 3/25/17 at 11:49 pm to L.A.
quote:
Butler has been in the league for 3 years. He's still pretty young.
He turned 27 earlier this month. He's older than the typical 3-year veteran.
Posted on 3/25/17 at 11:49 pm to L.A.
How I understood your post is that you don't want to pay this free agent now so you can have the money to pay a free agent later...
Posted on 3/25/17 at 11:53 pm to L.A.
your premise is dumb, we're better off rolling the dice on a rookie at #32 because he's cheaper.
We know Butler can play and play well in this league. He's not simply a product of the pats D, the guy excels in man coverage. Sure we have to pay a premium for him but our window is closing anyway, we don't have time to wait on a CB to potentially develop. Where would you rather spend the cash right now?
We know Butler can play and play well in this league. He's not simply a product of the pats D, the guy excels in man coverage. Sure we have to pay a premium for him but our window is closing anyway, we don't have time to wait on a CB to potentially develop. Where would you rather spend the cash right now?
Posted on 3/25/17 at 11:57 pm to SuperSoakher
quote:That's only part of my argument. The other part is that this is the deepest CB class in a decade. Seems smarter for me to use FA money on areas where the draft is weak, not where the draft is strong.
How I understood your post is that you don't want to pay this free agent now so you can have the money to pay a free agent later...
The only way the trade makes sense is what someone (drake20) said earlier in this thread. We have a narrow widow because of Drew Brees. I understand that argument, although I think it's a bad way to run a team from a GM aspect. The good teams find a way to compete while getting younger.
This post was edited on 3/26/17 at 12:01 am
Posted on 3/25/17 at 11:59 pm to WicKed WayZ
quote:A valid argument for the other side of the coin. I can respect that.
To me he's worth the 32nd pick.
Is there someone that's going to come in and be a sure fire No. 1 corner? Or in your opinion a sure fire No. 2 corner? Especially with our draft history with CBs I would much rather take a risk with a proven All Pro.
Sure he might not be an All Pro here, but he might be and at the least he's as good if not better than Breaux and that's worth a 32
Posted on 3/26/17 at 12:17 am to L.A.
quote:
with a relentless pass rush in front of him
Relentless is a strong word to describe the Pats pass rush the past 3 years.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 12:23 am to L.A.
relentless pass rush? the pats may have a worse rush than the New Orleans Saints
Posted on 3/26/17 at 12:34 am to L.A.
Who is left in FA this year to spend the money on? That ship has come and gone.
Where are we still weak on this team right now? CB, rush end, and LB.
Being that there weren't many top rush end options in FA that was always a need to be filled in the draft. We got a guy that showed promise one year, and brought back Tapp. Kik is also coming back from injury.
We tried to fill LB in FA. We'll see how that plays out as we didn't get any studs, just guys that play hard and have started.
We brought back Moore but there are so many injury question marks that we need another sure fire starter. A draft pick is NEVER a sure fire starter. I don't care how deep it is or how good player x is supposed to be.
We need a starting corner now. There is zero guarantee a rookie would start over Moore, Breaux, Williams, or even Crawley.
And if we are saving the money for next year then I have to ask why with Brees in his last year and basically threatening to jump ship if we miss the playoffs again?
We have the money now with no FAs to spend it on. May as well get someone that will definitely start for us, has proven to be good in man coverage (doesn't matter the scheme; you are either good in man coverage or you aren't, levels of gray aside), and is a winner.
Where are we still weak on this team right now? CB, rush end, and LB.
Being that there weren't many top rush end options in FA that was always a need to be filled in the draft. We got a guy that showed promise one year, and brought back Tapp. Kik is also coming back from injury.
We tried to fill LB in FA. We'll see how that plays out as we didn't get any studs, just guys that play hard and have started.
We brought back Moore but there are so many injury question marks that we need another sure fire starter. A draft pick is NEVER a sure fire starter. I don't care how deep it is or how good player x is supposed to be.
We need a starting corner now. There is zero guarantee a rookie would start over Moore, Breaux, Williams, or even Crawley.
And if we are saving the money for next year then I have to ask why with Brees in his last year and basically threatening to jump ship if we miss the playoffs again?
We have the money now with no FAs to spend it on. May as well get someone that will definitely start for us, has proven to be good in man coverage (doesn't matter the scheme; you are either good in man coverage or you aren't, levels of gray aside), and is a winner.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 12:57 am to breauxmosexual
quote:
Posted by breauxmosexual on 3/26/17 at 12:23 am to L.A. relentless pass rush? the pats may have a worse rush than the New Orleans Saints
Okay now the hyperbole has swayed to the opposite and just as wrong direction
Posted on 3/26/17 at 1:03 am to L.A.
Methinks ya got somtin, LA 
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