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Message
re: Theory about the FO and Graham.
Posted on 3/17/14 at 10:00 am to TigerB8
Posted on 3/17/14 at 10:00 am to TigerB8
quote:
One of the biggest benefits is it allows the other 31 teams to tell Jimmy and his agent what he's worth instead of the Saints. Carries more weight than if it was coming from a perceived "biased party" with a self motivated agenda.
This. Market dictates value.
0
Posted on 3/17/14 at 1:28 pm to Patrick O Rly
I said similar things during Brees's contract talks. I even said that the tag is a de facto place holder which allows us to know how much cap we're dealing with prior to working on he structure and other details.
Posted on 3/17/14 at 1:31 pm to Patrick O Rly
quote:
I may be off, but I'm beginning to think that the FO and Graham's agent have agreed to years and guaranteed money before the start of FA, but agreed to hold off hammering out the structure of the deal until they were done with their signings.
The reason I think that may be the case is they've yet to file a grievance, and the deals we've seen the Saints do (outside of Humber's one year deal) have been long term deals.
I think it is more likely that we are at square 1 on this deal.
I hope you are correct.
Posted on 3/17/14 at 1:36 pm to moneyg
quote:
I think it is more likely that we are at square 1 on this deal.
Why do you think that?
Reports before the start of FA is that the two sides weren't close, and it was going to be dragged out and ugly. A grievance was going to be filed immediately and blah blah blah.
That hasn't materialized. What advantage would Graham have in holding off on the grievance? I think it was a good faith gesture, and they'll hammer something out sooner than later.
Posted on 3/17/14 at 1:50 pm to Patrick O Rly
I don't think there's an agreement between the two, but rather the FO pretty much holding all of the cards in this negotiation, and they know the maximum that Jimmy will get paid, whether on the tag or on a contract. Knowing that amount, they have worked around it in regards to signing FAs.
Posted on 3/17/14 at 1:52 pm to mm2316
The only way I'd see that being the case is if Graham's camp thought filing a grievance was futile, but then they'd have nothing to lose. The grievance would be their only leverage play.
Posted on 3/17/14 at 1:52 pm to Patrick O Rly
quote:
Reports before the start of FA is that the two sides weren't close, and it was going to be dragged out and ugly. A grievance was going to be filed immediately and blah blah blah.
Media takes shite and runs with it.
It was that, then "multiple teams" are willing to part with 2 1s for him....blah blah.
quote:
That hasn't materialized. What advantage would Graham have in holding off on the grievance? I think it was a good faith gesture, and they'll hammer something out sooner than later.
I think they are closer than anyone knows, which is why the grievance didn't happen, as of yet. If things go south, then they still can file.
Posted on 3/17/14 at 1:57 pm to mm2316
quote:
I don't think there's an agreement between the two, but rather the FO pretty much holding all of the cards in this negotiation, and they know the maximum that Jimmy will get paid, whether on the tag or on a contract. Knowing that amount, they have worked around it in regards to signing FAs.
This is accurate.
Posted on 3/17/14 at 1:59 pm to Patrick O Rly
I'm not an agent, and have never been involved in this kind of deal personally, but I would think a grievance would be futile. When the NFL, not the team, labels you a position, the same position you have been labeled your whole career, labeled at as a Pro Bowl and All-Pro player, I don't see a 3rd party arbitrator over turning that. While they wouldn't have anything to lose negotiation wise, knowing what I said above, Graham and his team may not have gone forward with the grievance out of negotiating with the team on good faith, and not wanting things to get ugly.
Then again, I could be completely off, but that's my .02.
Then again, I could be completely off, but that's my .02.
Posted on 3/17/14 at 2:04 pm to mm2316
There is precedent with Suggs of an arbitrator splitting the difference on the tag. Idk. It just seems it would be the logical step, unless they have some sort of tentative agreement. I don't think Graham filing a grievance would burn any bridges. I think they'd understand it. Hell Brees did.
Posted on 3/17/14 at 2:09 pm to Patrick O Rly
Good point. Although Brees' grievance was a bit different, I had forgot about him filing, and winning his case.
Posted on 3/17/14 at 2:10 pm to Patrick O Rly
Do unsigned free agents have any impact on the Salary Cap?
Answer: For Restricted Free Agents (RFA), a Qualifying Offer is included in the team salary. This amount remains in team salary until the player is signed, the Qualifying Offer is withdrawn, or a “June 1st tender” is made. If the player is unsigned and the Team makes a June 1 or June 15 offer, this offer will be included in team salary until the player is signed, the team gives up their rights to the player, or until the Tuesday after the tenth week of the regular season if the player is unsigned.
For Unrestricted Free Agents (UFA), if a June 1 offer is made, the amount afforded will be included in team salary as of July 15.
For transition and franchise players, an offer will be included in team salary when it is made.
These offers for UFA, transition players, and franchise players will remain included in team salary until the player is signed, the offer is withdrawn, the team gives up their rights to the player, or until the Tuesday following the tenth week of the regular season if the player is unsigned. All offer sheets will be included in team salary when the offer is made until the player is signed to a contract with any NFL Team or the offer sheet is withdrawn.
Answer: For Restricted Free Agents (RFA), a Qualifying Offer is included in the team salary. This amount remains in team salary until the player is signed, the Qualifying Offer is withdrawn, or a “June 1st tender” is made. If the player is unsigned and the Team makes a June 1 or June 15 offer, this offer will be included in team salary until the player is signed, the team gives up their rights to the player, or until the Tuesday after the tenth week of the regular season if the player is unsigned.
For Unrestricted Free Agents (UFA), if a June 1 offer is made, the amount afforded will be included in team salary as of July 15.
For transition and franchise players, an offer will be included in team salary when it is made.
These offers for UFA, transition players, and franchise players will remain included in team salary until the player is signed, the offer is withdrawn, the team gives up their rights to the player, or until the Tuesday following the tenth week of the regular season if the player is unsigned. All offer sheets will be included in team salary when the offer is made until the player is signed to a contract with any NFL Team or the offer sheet is withdrawn.
Posted on 3/17/14 at 2:11 pm to mm2316
Different, but with the same outcome (the tag being more expensive).
Posted on 3/17/14 at 4:52 pm to Patrick O Rly
I think tagging him and getting no offers demonstrates that he is good but a tight end is only seen as being worth so much. If he truly was one of the two best reciever a in the leuge a team would have pulled the trigger.
Posted on 3/17/14 at 4:58 pm to Patrick O Rly
quote:
Why do you think that?
Reports before the start of FA is that the two sides weren't close, and it was going to be dragged out and ugly. A grievance was going to be filed immediately and blah blah blah.
That hasn't materialized. What advantage would Graham have in holding off on the grievance? I think it was a good faith gesture, and they'll hammer something out sooner than later.
I don't agree.
I think both parties are playing the waiting game and we will see that no deal is coming anytime soon.
Like I said, I hope you are right. But, Graham and his agent aren't leaving money on the table. That usually means a long ordeal.
Posted on 3/17/14 at 5:36 pm to moneyg
I think they realize the grievance filed can go the 'average of both' which would be 9.5, somewhere around the saints offer I imagine.
Doing that would put a target on JG in the public eye as "the bad guy". Behind the scenes working a deal would be a better PR move imo.
Doing that would put a target on JG in the public eye as "the bad guy". Behind the scenes working a deal would be a better PR move imo.
Posted on 3/17/14 at 10:28 pm to htran90
quote:
I think they realize the grievance filed can go the 'average of both' which would be 9.5, somewhere around the saints offer I imagine.
That number is most probably close to the real thing. I personally don't think he's worth that kind of money...especially with the FAs we have coming up next year that are absolutely "must sign" players.
Posted on 3/17/14 at 10:39 pm to adono
quote:There may be no must sign players next year unless PRob and/or Butler show off.
especially with the FAs we have coming up next year that are absolutely "must sign" players.
Jordan and Ingram have team 5th year options and no one else would be worth much over minimum.
Basically if we wanted we could leave him on the tag and tag him again next year(at about $8.5m) and come out cheaper in the end.
Edit:
I will say we should probably work out an extension with Hicks and/or Galette so both of them along with Jordan don't all become UFAs at once in 2016.
This post was edited on 3/17/14 at 10:41 pm
Posted on 3/18/14 at 8:01 am to bonethug0108
quote:
Jordan and Ingram have team 5th year options and no one else would be worth much over minimum.
I wasn't aware of the 5th year option for Jordan.
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