re: Maybe Bud Dupree and Shane Ray Are Not What Everyone Thinks.....

ok.

Dupree is much bigger than Beasley and they had basically the same 40 with the same 10-yard split. Dupree also had a higher vertical and longer broad jump. But you keep trolling away.

Ok, but if all things are the same Dupree was more impressive because he's bigger.

Comparatively of course Beasley is going to be quicker he's 25 lbs smaller, and that was AFTER he packed on about 10 lbs for the combine. Beasley had a great 3-cone time for his size, and so did Dupree.

Paul Dawson, a guy who is widely regarded (by the uneducated) to be "unathletic" had a reasonably faster 3-cone time than Beasley. But it could be attributed to Beasley having 3 inches and 10 pounds on Dawson


It's simple logic. If all physical measurements are the same, you're going to take the bigger guy 10/10, as far as athleticism is concerned.

It's easy to give the edge to Dupree in his ability against the run because of the scheme he played in. Dupree had more responsibilities placed on him & he was also allowed more free reign than Beasley. Beasley responsibility was to hold the edge against the run. When you have an inside linebacker like Stephone Anthony who can run sideline to sideline, you can afford to play that way in your scheme. With a team like Kentucky, there is going to be a lack of talent so as a defensive coach, you have to squeeze every bit out your most talented defensive player.

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Dropping into Coverage:

Dupree > Beasley

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Being able to cover as an outside linebacker is always a plus but it's just an asset.

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Pass Rush:

Beasley > Dupree

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This right here though, is a game changer. Offenses have to game plan against this. It can change entire protection schemes, force offenses to hold tight ends & backs to block & chip & can cause offensive coordinators to completely scrap shot plays down the field off of 8-9 step drops. Not to mention that it can speed up the clock a quarterback's head & be the cause them force passes into traffic.

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you make the mistake in assuming these guys referenced are elite talents

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I should have been more clear. Vic Beasley is an elite talent. I'm not completely sold that even a guy like Randy Gregory is an elite talent.

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Plus we don't need another one of him. We need a 3-down player with a first round pick

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Galette may have decent straight line speed but he is as stiff as a manikin. That's why he is one dimensional. When you struggle to change direction as a defensive lineman, it makes an offensive lineman's job to block you, a whole lot easier. That’s why posted the pictures of those particular players. Not only were they fast but they have/had the ability to change directions like a cat. Beasley has that type of ability as well.

please god, let gregory drop and be done with all this alvin island talk.

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That's the thing, most of these "athletes" are coveted because of their potential. Some turn into Jason Pierre Paul others turn into Dion Jordan/Martez Wilson.

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Do you notice the difference in these players? Jordan & Wilson are stiff. Neither move laterally very well nor can they change directions quickly. It's all about the hips. Pierre Paul is smooth for a big guy. Add in the fact he has long arms & he becomes extremely tough to block. Hunter is stiff. He may end up being a solid player against the run but he is too stiff in the hips to ever be a good pass rusher.

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I want an instant starter, not a project, at 13. Save the projects for later picks and get yourself players that will change the dimensions of this team. Lineman like collins/scherff will make a difference. Receivers like Cooper, white, and Parker will make a difference. Don't settle for pass rushers so early because the top few are taken.

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Amen, brother. Instant impact is what we need no matter where we draft. The player at #13 HAS to contribute right off the bat.

Where did I have the words elite and Gallte in the same sentence? I said he's a great pass rusher. Which he is.

I got your posted mixed up with another. Galette is good, not great. If someone like Von Miller & Justin Houston got as many one on one matchups as Galette does, they would have 30 sacks in a season & not just 10.

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I want an instant starter, not a project, at 13. Save the projects for later picks and get yourself players that will change the dimensions of this team. Lineman like collins/scherff will make a difference. Receivers like Cooper, white, and Parker will make a difference



Exactly.

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this isn't as black and white as is being made here. just because a player must develop, that doesn't mean he isn't an instant starter. the difference in terms of a 1st rd pick is that some players are drafted high because they can start and offer immediate impact at year one while having limited development ceiling. other players are good starters but have a super high ceiling to develop. given these two scenarios, I completely disagree that you go for the "instant starter." That only works if you don't plan on keeping the player long term, and in that case you aren't building a team that will last.

Let's say Watt and Hicks are rookies and both projected around the same slot in the first round. In this particular case, Watt is determined to be a guy with huge ceiling but will require some development and Hicks his primed to start and contribute from day one. Their careers will be what we now see. Who do you pick?

You always go for the best player, regardless of if he will need some development or not.